Yup. or ask to speak to a manager and then ask the manager to place you with someone else.
Don’t worry about it. Best not to talk sales with non sales types. He caught you doing your job. They wouldn’t pay you if people didn’t need to be sold.
And my whole goal in creating this thread was to create understanding of all sides of the business and to show that I’m just a guy doing a job, and by somehow being good at it it’s a crime.
Then you, ahh, ummm, “misspoke”, right?
Yup, distracting. I have a few mintues to see if I like something I’m literally going to spend thousands of hours in. You & your cow-orkers yammering on about wheel size or horsepower (which is usually pretty close in comparable vehicles & therefore not all that important) is distracting.
Pretty much all of the major car manufacturers have decent websites that show the various features & (MSRP) costs for each trim level & options. I’ve ruled out cars because they don’t come the way I want w/o leaving my house. By the time I go to a dealer I want to (after the obvious bit of paperwork) be handed the keys for a test drive to see if I really like the car I liked on paper. If I liked the car, then I want to talk pricing. If you need to go “talk to the manager” then you’re wasting that all important time you talked about or you’re nothing but an intermediary who is adding to the cost.
I realize you didn’t set up the system but, especially in this day & age, it’s a flawed design. Don’t sit there & blow smoke about how wonderful you are in a system that, if designed today, wouldn’t have you in it. It could be handled with a clerk. The purpose of a salesperson is to upsell.
Why? That usually helps you much more than the customer.
If I 1) have a car that & 2) one that is not in need of a major repair I don’t need a new car TODAY, do I?
I guess the robber who killed Uncle Ben was a down on his luck car salesman.
“Talking to the manager” is not just a bullshit line. As he and I both mentioned above, the sales manager has access to information about the dealer’s bottom line on a vehicle and must approve all sales. Very few dealerships I ever heard of will allow a sales person to have access to that info. The sales manager could not possibly keep up with the customer volume, so the sales people are a necessity and not just an added cost.
What bullshit. The purpose of a salesman is to be the product expert (or at least he should be). You really think a clerk would have extensive product knowledge? If it sounds like he’s up-selling you (generic ‘you’), then you’re not giving him enough information up front about what you’re looking for, you’re too much of a wuss to take charge of the transaction, or the sales person is grinding you (in which case, ask for someone else). There are good salesmen and bad, just like in any business. The good ones get repeat business and referrals over the years, and the bad ones move on to doing something else. Good salesmen don’t need to up-sell: volume pays the bills.
QFT
You’re saying the sales manager gets involved in every sale, so what is the salesman doing at that point but playing shuttle diplomacy & going back & forth? Why can’t I negotiate directly with the one who has the power to negotiate?
I don’t need a product expert. The manufacturer’s website gives me most of what I want - if I want a sunroof, I need to get the third trim level. Leather seats, the fourth, etc. If I want the tan interior, I’m limited to white, grey, & red; if I want the blue exterior, it only comes with black seats. Add a second website, like Consumer Reports, for reliability & safety scores & I’m an expert before I ever set foot in a dealership.
You’ve got it backwards, because I’m not a wuss, I don’t need a salesman, I only need an order taker. I know that I want car X in trim level 3 in color B (or backup color C). What does a salesman do for me?
More times than not, when I’ve walked into a dealership saying I want to test drive Car X in trim level 2, the car that’s brought around is trim level 4 or 5. This car has leather upgraded seats with the lumbar support, & dual zone climate control & a touchscreen radio, which means the seats aren’t what I would get & the console layout is different than what I’m interested in. I have refused to test drive this the same as if he brought a pickup around when I said I wanted a sedan. That’s what I mean by trying to upsell.
He was overblowing things quite a bit, and I appreciate the perspective that you offer here. But…
It most certainly can replace salesmen for a huge number of potential car buyers. There are a lot of people who simply know what they want, have good credit, down payments, and don’t need a human middleman. For everyone else, yeah, sure, be there for them, but I personally don’t need you, except the system kind of forces me to need you. That’s not at all meant to be a dig against you personally; like I said I’m glad you’re here being open about everything, and I’m glad that you help customers that do need you.
Luckily I work for a manufacturer and I now get my cars (including pricing) completely online.
Based on your description, couldn’t the customer just email you again 49 hours later and get the same deal?
What qualities make for a successful car salesman?
From the other car thread, but more appropriate here:
I agree that in the end it is probably preferable for the dealership to sell the new car at a higher price (so the higher price is included in truecar and other online stats as selling for more), which allows a higher trade-in value for the same net amount. But the eventual selling price of the trade-in isn’t known until it leaves the dealership (either out the front or back door), at which time the resale price and repairs and detailing are completed.
My question is how do the sales manager and salesperson get credit/paid for this net amount, which may not be known for a month or two? Is there some sort of final reconciliation of commission when the trade-in is finally sold or wholesaled? And since a resale at the store will presumably mean a higher price than shipping the car out to auction, how is that factored in?
This one has been sticking in my craw for a couple of days so I figured I would comment. You are not everyone. You are what is known in the sales industry as a lay down. You are a blessing to every sales person you meet and if they know what they are doing they will get the heck out of your way and give you what you want.
That said, the commissioned sales person who relies on lay downs, (and funnily enough we call those people “order takers” in my business but it’s a derogatory phrase) starves. Everyone else needs to be sold, just a little usually. If only to make the decision that they are going to do business with you and not keep shopping for another two weeks only to make the exact same deal (or maybe even a worse one) with someone else.
Here is the other thing. At least in my business, which is admittedly not car sales, but insurance, the company would much rather do away with the commissioned sales force than keep them. It’s hard to attract quality employees to a commission position. It’s hard to train them and the job is hard. The burn out rate in my industry is over 90% in the first year and 90% of the remainder after 5. Those numbers might not be totally true for auto sales, but my guess is they are close. Commissioned sales people are also a huge liability risk. These companies spends tons of money on market research. They keep commissioned sales people around because they need to. The business doesn’t work without them.
By my estimation, all the complaints you have is because you’re (surprisingly, given you propensity to give your viewpoint) letting the salesperson dictate whatever is happening to your transaction.
So you don’t like the salesperson talking about wheel size and horsepower (since he obviously knows you know this already) then tell him you don’t want to hear about that. I guarantee you his next statement will be “oh, I’m sorry, what DO you want to hear about?” And you will probably say “Nothing, I know everything already because I looked online and know exactly what this car has and exactly what I want, I’m just doing this to get a feel for it for myself”. To which then the salesperson will probably be quiet or wonder why you even brought him along in the first place.
Like most things in life, your complaints/biases are all based on the fact that you didn’t do anything to change the situation. If you tell a salesperson that you know everything already and to leave you alone they might think you’re an asshole because you were curt and direct with them, versus now seeming like an asshole because you have a smug satisfaction of being better than them
Know the product you are selling, like any person in retail who is any good at his job. This means spending off time or down time studying the literature about the products.
Talk to people like you would talk to a friend or relative. Ask what their needs are, and actually listen to what is said. This helps for return business, reduces your chances of showing vehicles that are inappropriate, and reduces the amount of time you spend with the customer. Sorry, but time is money in commission sales.
Based on the above conversation, only recommend models or options that would be of some interest or use, not just things that bump the price or trim level. People hate feeling like they’re being upsold.
Much like the prime directive of this board: don’t be a jerk.
How many customers actually kick the tires while looking at cars?
More seriously. We’ve all seen/heard ads of 0% financing or some promotion for ‘well qualified buyers’. What makes a well qualified buyer? 100k income? 825 credit score?
And something you mentioned earlier… Employee pricing. Every few years I’ll hear an ad for employee pricing for everyone. Legit or just a tactic to bring people in?
Actually a good question. Being personable, unafraid to engage strangers in conversation daily, knowing a little about a lot to find common ground, have the ability to use logic to overcome the objections you hear relentlessly (“Well, I like the car FGIE, but I need to talk to my wife.” “Well, let’s call her then!” “Uh…she’s…at work. She’s not available.” “Hey, no problem, why don’t you take the car to her at work and show it to her?” “I don’t want to.” “Why not?” “She isn’t available at work” “Oh, I understand. I know, just take the car home overnight and show it to her when she gets home! See how it looks in your driveway, make sure it fits in your garage…” “No, I don’t want to do that either” “Why not? You said you liked the car, and if you’re anything like me and my wife, you’ve already discussed that you’re looking for a new car so she knows you’re here, right?” “Yes, but…”)
And so on. The guy just wants to leave. In this scenario it’s pretty hilarious because I ask the customer and have them sign off on the worksheet that they will take delivery on the car today if all figures are agreeable and all decision makers are present. He’ll say something about wearing the pants in the family, we’ll exchange knowing, guy-to-guy grins and winks as he initials off on it, then suddenly he has to talk it over with his wife.
This is but one example of what people will do when they are lying to you. Of course you can’t directly accuse them of lying, but you and the customer dance around it with logic and language.
You have to be able to work a lot of hours, generally to the detriment of every personal relationship in your life (although my new store is really flexible as I’m a single dad with primary custody of two boys. Essentially I sacrifice four of eight off days a month for the ability to leave early three weekdays a week). You also need thick skin. Salespeople are relentless in their pursuit of foul humor, mostly directed at each other as well as customers. It’s how we pass the down time!
You have to have a general working knowledge of your product in order to effectively demo a car for a customer, but without vomiting information overload onto people until their eyes glaze over.
It’s kinda being all things to all people. Not everyone has the gift. Most of all, and this is where so many fail, you have to LISTEN. The customer will tell you their hot buttons on a car (safety, third row seating, leather, whatever it is) and a good salesperson will take all that information in when placing someone on a car (unless they are already there on a specific vehicle they saw on the internet).
It’s an exhausting, frustrating but fun job. I like it. I want to get into management so I’m working towards that. That’s where not only bigger money is, but more stable income from month to month because you get paid on everyone’s deals on a percentage.
The dealer net profit is known as the deal is structured or as it’s altered. You know what you’ve made on a car as soon as you sell it, or shortly thereafter. The “settle up” for your commission pay is usually on the tenth of the following month for everything you sold in the previous month.
Interestingly, a “lay down” is someone that accepts the first set of numbers, which almost always is the highest gross profit the dealer can build into the deal. This is all based around payments. I make sure my customers understand what they are getting, back end products, what they are, the term duration, the interest rate, all of it. I’ve sold cars to a couple Bengals players and for whatever reason, they are super easy to deal with and just accept whatever you give them. Some on here would accuse me of taking advantage, but it’s not me or you buying the car, and ultimately, it’s their decision and their money. If they don’t want to negotiate, of course I am fine with that.
That’s the feeling I got from him too.
LOL. Nobody actually kicks the tires.
A “well qualified buyer” doesn’t need 100k income, but they need a decent credit history (generally 710 or above score), not have any repos on their record or be in a current bankruptcy, and not have excessive debt in relation to their income.
Employee pricing is something you almost always have to qualify for. It’s a set amount off of the MSRP based on the VIN number of a car. The current or former employee (or relative thereof) MUST provide us with an authorization code so that we can send that along to GM so they give us our dealer allowance back against selling the car at that price, which is at or below what we own it for. Without it we lose money selling the car at that price. The dealer allowance is generally about half of the discount back to the dealer. As the MSRP climbs, the discount becomes greater. It’s somewhere around $1000-1500 off the sticker price of a car for every 10 grand of the price of the vehicle. Ergo, there’s less markup on cheaper new cars so the discount is smaller relative to the price, the opposite being true on a more expensive car. This discount can usually only be combined with whatever national cash rebate is on the car, as well as GM points off a GM card. I’ve seen people get fourteen grand off sticker this way, which is a HELL of a deal. Of course they always want more, it’s never enough.
And yes, “employee pricing for everyone” is exactly what it means. At least, for the GM cars I sell it is. It’s a very limited program in terms of time, and it may include only selected models, so you have to pay attention to the fine print, but yeah, it’s real.
How tough is this to do? The few times I’ve tried it, it’s at least 20-30 mins of paperwork & hoops that need to be jumped through. I believe this is because a dealer tag is associated to a person not a car & if that person is not in that car there are both governmental & dealership paperwork that needs to be completed.
How does that work for GM? Random relatives can get the employee price? The best I can do here at your cross-town competitor is for immediate family members, and only four times per year. I can do Friends and Family (my price + 2.5%, IIRC), or even a competitive persuasion thing (like say a Doper says he’s considering a GM or Toyota), but same thing: my price + xx%. Luckily for us that’s all on line and electronic; our dealers know they’re authorized when they show up, at least in the USA. It’s a PITA in some of our other countries.
UUGGGHHH! I HATE these kinds of tactics. You’ve already admitted to using the four square worksheet, and now throw out this maneuver. I’ve had a couple of salesmen try this “sign that you promise to buy” BS on me, and I told them to forget the whole thing and walked out. Talk about smarmy, high pressure sales BS.
And I don’t do the “talk it over with the wife” thing. I simply say I am not going to make a decision on a $20k+ purchase right here, right now. I am going to think about it and compare it with other options. If you don’t like it, let me work with someone else or I’ll go to another dealer. I’m the one who has the money, and I am not going to get pushed around by a salesperson who has taken a couple of sales tactics courses.
I always hated the four square sheet. The dealer required sales people to use it, and I thought it was a transparent and dishonest tactic to use, akin to trying to use a shell game on a customer. It’s a ruse to make the customer feel he’s somehow obligated to buy, but most people know that it has no legal standing and resent having to initial it. It invariably comes back with a counter-offer, so you already know that you’re not going to reach that price.
The really annoying thing for me is that even after I tell a salesman that I used to sell vehicles, he’ll try the same tired tactics anyway. At that point, I’ll stop him and ask him if he’s actually interested in selling me a vehicle. If the answer is yes (it always is), I’ll tell him to stop with the sales hustle or find me someone else to talk to.