Or is this because I’m a woman, something I always hestitate to assume?
Here’s the deal: I’m in the market for a new car. I know the car I want – '01 Honda Civic EX Coupe, preferably silver. Being a firm believer that forewarned is forearmed, I’ve done bunch of research on the car and on new car sales. I’ve called around to check avaiability, and found a dealership that has the car I want on order, scheduled to arrive sometime next week. So today I go in to talk to the saleman. And here’s what happened:
He offers me $200 for my trade-in. Two hundred dollars. The trade is a '93 Chevy Lumina, excellent condition except for a good-sized (two panel) dent in the side, which means really only fair condition. But less than 100K (though barely); loaded; only one owner before me; all services performed promptly; no major engine or body problems ever (except for the dent). Now, I know what the car is worth because I’ve checked with Kelley, NADA, and Edmunds blue books. I know the range for poor condition, fair condition, good condition, and excellent condition. I know damn well $200 isn’t in any of those ranges.
He starts talking about “discounting” the price of the new car off the MSRP, as if MSRP is something other than a number Honda pulled out of the air, and as if it has anything to do with what the dealership paid for the car, or what they need to get out of it to make a profit.
He laments the “floor,” which he explains as “the cost of the car charged to the dealership by the manufacturer,” which they of course will have to recover. He does this because he assumes that I don’t know that “floor” is a form of security for inventory paid to the manufacturer for unsold cars at the dealership – an expense they will not incur on this car if they sell it to me, because the car isn’t there yet and, once bought, will no longer be “inventory” – in other words, it will never be on the floor incurring floor costs. So at this point he is flat out lying to me.
He says he cannot sell me the car at invoice (or slighly over) because then the dealership will obviously not turn a profit – no profit if the product is sold for the amount they paid for it, right? He does this because he again assumes that I don’t know about the “holdback” – the fee of 2% of the MSRP kicked back from the manufacturer to the dealer to subsidize the floor costs – a fee that will be pure profit to the dealer when, as here, the car is sold before it even arrives. Another flat-out, bold-faced lie.
He generously agrees to “waive” the $125 charge for “unwrapping” the vehicle – a procedure taking 15 minutes, tops, and performed by some wash guy they pay $8 a hour. He also agrees to “waive” the $300 charge for floormats – something I didn’t order, don’t want, and wouldn’t pay for, seeing as how I can buy them for $50 at an autoparts store. In other words, he is willing to “give” me the care for $450 less than the MSRP – not including $200 for my old car, of course.
What the fuck? Do I have “moron” tattooed on my forehead?
I should have left after No. 1, instead of sitting through the whole spiel and leaving when I was so disgusted and angry I fumed all the way home. I don’t care if I have to pay full price for the car elsewhere, I would walk everywhere I need to go before doing business with that guy. To be sitting across a desk from someone who is looking you in the eye and lying to you, and trying his best to screw you, because he assumes you’re too stupid to know it – it’s infuriating. And I suspect he thought he could get away with it because I’m a “girl” and must be willing to pay any price for a “pretty” car that coordinates with my outfit.
I’m so disgusted I hardly even want the car any more, if this is the shit I have to put up with to get it.
Remove some of the expletives from your post, print it off, and mail it to the sales manager (and if Honda will give you the name) the regional sales director.
I can’t tell you why that guy was being such an ass, but I once got $1500 trade in for a POS '81 Firebird in 1997. This thing was absolute shit. It had an oil leak, a gas leak, bad brakes, t-tops that didn’t come off but still leaked when it rained, transmission trouble, etc. And I still got $1500 for it.
Sounds like this guy was trying to screw you (and not in the fun way). I’d follow tomndebb’s suggestion and send that OP to the salesman’s superiors.
Jodi hold still, no, stop squirming, (momspit) THERE. Now, it’s gone.
Oh, do I hear your pain. I swear (frequently in real life) the next time I have to buy a car, I’m sending in my friend Doug to act as me.
My last time, I had 4 days to buy one (why? 'cause I had x number of days to locate and purchase one at before my insurance would stop paying for the rental after some moron totalled mine).
I called all over. I said I want:
Stick shift
Trunk.
Between these two prices.
All over town - nope, don’t have one. One guy said he had two. First one was a hatchback. I’ll save you the trouble - “hatchback does not equal trunk”. Second was a 10 year old something or other that had power everything (you coulda gotten a pelvic exam in the drivers seat, it tilted so much).
And dont’ even get me started on the body shop guys. (“here sign this work order.” But it’s blank, would ya mind filling it in? :rolleyes: )
I wouldnt mess with you if I was 10 feet tall and bulletproof! Fuck his head Jodi! Do it for me, for you <cue dramatic music> DO IT FOR EVERY WOMAN IN AMERICA WHO HAS EVER BEEN SCREWED BY SOME SLEAZE BAG WHO ASSUMED WE DONT KNOW SHIT!
Now listen up young lady, make some notes, get your razor sharp self in there and tear a new asshole.
$200?? if anyone has “moron” tattooed on the forehead, it’s this guy. please, i got $3 grand for my piece of shit car, on its deathbed from an insurance company! and no, the car didn’t die as a result of the accident, it just happened that some lady in an suv was kind enough to dent my door about an hour before the thing decided to go off to the big parking lot in the sky. god bless her for not looking both ways!
I still don’t know why we have the barbaric system we have for buying cars. It’s insane and unnecessary.
I found when I bought my car that your biggest bargaining tools were your feet. I flat out told the guy, “No, that’s a ridiculous offer. Good day.” And start to walk out. And keep walking out. Very often they will RUN to come get you and offer you a better deal. Always remember, despite their big talk, YOU are the one in complete control of the situation, especially since you already HAVE a car. Don’t forget to let them know that. They are the ones in the submissive position. They are the ones who need to make you happy, not the other way around. If it’s not happening, tell them it’s not, and leave. If you’re really gutsy, write your number on their card and say “Call me if you decide to come up with a better offer.”
It’s a shame you have to act like that, but they have chosen to make it that way. Car buying is one of the most unpleasant activites otu there, and I’ve never heard a good reason why it needs to be that way.
The husband and I have had some luck with knocking the car dealers off-balance with some of the following strategies. If you haven’t got a husband borrow a boyfriend to play the male role.
Have the man, otherwise acting the part of macho redneck, go on and on about vehicle color, interior upholstery, and how it will coordinate or contrast with the color of the garage and the riding mower it will be parked next to.
Have the woman insist on looking under the hood. When hood is opened, woman should, if necessary, climb onto the bumper or otherwise hoist herself over the engine block, stick her head deep under the hood, and start fingering this that and the other. If you can get grease on your fingers all the better. Make comments about having or not having the tools to work on/replace spark plugs, oil, belts, etc. Most effective if you have some clue what the hell you are talking about, but if you partner can provide distraction it may cover for ignorance.
Man should comment on size of trunk accomodating groceries, laundry, etc.
Woman should comment on trunk holding the cage for her pet boa plus feeder rats.
Man should mentions something about putting down a tarp to prevent critter byproducts from staining. Have him ask about stain treatments for trunk upholstery. It’s even more fun if you ask about methods for getting rat urine out of carpeting.
When woman is asked about vanity mirrors, color, decor, or other “feminine” attributes say “my husband/boyfriend makes those decisions”
When the man is asked about financing, money, etc. say the woman makes those decisions.
This won’t always work, but most of the time the idjits out just to take advantage of you will be thrown off their usual spiel. Those who want to deal with the customer actual wants, needs, and desires will shift gears and adjust.
The husband and I found truck buying to be even more fun than the car buying - “Honey, I’m sure it can handle the weight of the airplane engine but I think we should install a bedliner.” “Excuse me, Mr. Dealer, is this finish resistant to agricultural chemicals?” “Babe, I’m pretty sure this weather stripping isn’t goat-proof.”
TOM, $100K for the ol’ Chev? I wish! Say, are you in the market for a car? Yeah, I see the OP wasn’t totally clear on that, but you’re right – that’s the mileage.
The thing is, I don’t want to dicker. I know the invoice price of the car (God bless Edmunds.com – I cannot recommend it highly enough for necessary information). I’m willing to make them a fair offer over that price, because I know perfectly well they are in the business to make money and I am not trying to dick 'em out of their profit. But no – you have to sit there and haggle haggle haggle and be lied to and have them tell you what a worthless POS your trade is (lie lie lie) and how little money they make on these cars (lie lie lie) and do you want the optional mud guards as $100 each? Clear coat? Extended warranty? Fuck! I want to give you a big fat check and I want you to refrain from speaking because every time you open your mouth another lie falls out and then I can’t do business with you!
Yeah, KELLS, I’m a lawyer, which frankly is why I think I’m so sensitive to – well, I can’t call it bullshitting, because it’s not just the friendly bullshitting with a little, ahem, embellishment. No, it’s lying to me. And I am VERY aware of what low opinion many people have of lawyers and so I would NEVER sit across from someone and just lie to them – I’d cut my throat first. So when I’m in the other chair I just look at them and think “How can you do that? How can you sit there and lie your ass off for money and not turn a hair?”
WRING, your idea of sending a guy (or taking a guy with me) has merit, and I’ve considered it. But I can’t – the very idea just fucking galls me – that in the 21st century my choice is to send some man to do my business for me, or else bend over and grab my ankles.
Seriously, is it because I’m a woman? Do guys get the full-on bullshit-fest too? Because I might feel marginally better if I thought they treated everyone as an idiot, and not only those of us with boobs.
Well, I’ve had that nonsense thrown at me, too, and I’m a guy. Now that I’ve been around the block a few times, I won’t give these assholes a chance to get into their spiel.
When I walk into the showroom, I have my own spiel. I say:
“I’ll talk, and you listen. Then you talk and I’ll listen. I’m not here to kick tires. I’m ready to buy a car today. The sticker tells me what you want for the car. I don’t care what you want. I want to know what you’ll take. We’ll discuss options and trade-ins after we have a meeting of the minds on the base price. Please give me your best number.”
He tries to go into his routine anyway, but I just keep interrupting and asking for the number. I persist until he gives me one, and I invariably say, “Wrong answer. Please give me another number. One that will convince me that I’m not wasting your time and mine.”
After a few exchanges like that, you’ll either walk away or agree on a price. Then you repeat the process with the options and trade-in.
I know it borders on rudeness, but I’ve come to the conclusion that these guys are predatory if given a half a chance, so I don’t feel guilty. And we’re talking about hundreds of dollars here.
No matter how good a deal you think you got, rest assured that he won’t starve. A decent commission is okay by me. An obscene one is not.
Then tell the fucker that you’re going somewhere else. If you’re not stuck on a Civic, I’d suggest a Saturn.
But before you go, fuck with them a bit. Almost the same thing happened to me, so after I’d decided to buy a car someplace else I went back to the original dealership, test drove the most expensive car on the lot, and then proceeded to tell them why I was going to buy my car at their major competitor.
I personally would send my friend Doug. He likes to carshop. He’s not a moron. He enjoys arguing with moronic car salesmen (as opposed to me, who hates car shopping and hates arguing with moron… hey wait a second. )
Anyhow, the idea wasn’t ‘send a man’ per se, but send some one else.
I agree it sucks major league to be in the category of ‘I can get over on her in 3 seconds’. And, yes, I suspect that it does have to do with being female (I doubt that many would shove over a blank work order to a male for him to sign).
I am the car negotiator in our family, and I have to put up with all the initial dickcheese shit you’re describing. I think they throw it all out there thinking/hoping you’ll back down and cave in like the wimpy no-nothing tomato they hope you really are. They’re in for a surprise.
Negotiate the car price first, THEN see about a trade-in. Don’t let them wrap all that up together. Frankly, you’ll do tons better selling it yourself, but I know that’s too big a hassle for some people. Accept that if you can’t/won’t do it yourself, you’re going to have to take a somewhat-shitty trade-in price for it. Dealers insist on that. But you can do what you can to improve that $200 offer.
Here is a line that worked for me when the dealer started throwing out loads of bullshit about how the owner didn’t really like “messing around” with dealer holdbacks and other fees, and how expensive their overhead was in our town which is why they didn’t deal as well as the dealer 30 miles down the road. I said “I’m not asking you to cut the price for everyone. I’m asking you to do it for ME.” I wasn’t arguing that those weren’t important factors in the price-setting on most cars–I just wanted them to fuck off and not use them when dealing with me. They’re free to rip off any other moron they wanted to.
I really liked the advice I got at carbuyingtips.com. They had good advice about cars, salesmen, tradeins, and negotiating. I took the advice from that site and I made it clear to the salesman that I understood the dealer’s desire to get a fair profit, just not an excessive one.
My husband was quiet as a mouse, and I was the one busting the guy’s balls. I wasn’t comfortable in that role, but the salesman never had to know that.
jodi, im wondering, did you call him on any of his lies? maybe he was spewing all that because he thought you were buying it. i mean, yes, it sucks that he’s trying to dick you over, but you’re going to get a lot farther if you let him know that you’re fully aware of what he’s doing and will not stand for it.
All this was reason why my wife and I bought our Voyager at CarMax. I did my research and thought their prices reasonable. We got our own fiancing through our credit union, so once we were sure, we walked in, test-drove four vans, agreed on the one we liked, and got rolling on the paperwork.
Up to that point, I was checking out books and taking advice on all of these tactics, and not liking this bullshit one bit. It was a RELIEF to go to CarMax.
I think I would have said (loudly), “Excuse me, do I LOOK like an idiot to you? Yes, I know you’re working on commission, and no, I am not trying to screw you out of that. However, this is what my trade-in is worth, this is what I KNOW you paid for the car you’re trying to sell me, and I am SO not going to sit here and let you talk to me like I am a clueless moron. So here’s the deal, bucko (note: when people act that stupidly, you are indeed required to call them “bucko”). I will pay you this many dollars for this car, and you will give me this many dollars for my trade-in, or I will drive my happy ass up the road to the Saturn dealer, where I can be reasonably certain they hire humans.”
Yeah, I see the OP wasn’t totally clear on that, but you’re right – that’s the mileage.