life plans - pipe dream or 'hey, that sounds great'?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Well, a real estate agent is coming tommorrow at 2pm to check out our house. After the ‘One Island, One City’ fiasco was rammed through, we decided enough was enough. We don’t want to live in a mega city. Extensive discussion has revealed we don’t want to live in any city. Nor suburbs for that matter. We want to sell our house and find a place in the middle of nowhere, somewhere on the Canadian shield and go into semi-retirement.

Here’s the rough plan:

We paid $100k for our house. Initial talks with real estate agent and a rough market analysis lead us to believe we could hope to get $150k for it. (not bad profit over 2yrs) After paying back the mortgage and various fees, we should be left with about $100k.

$30-40k can get you quite a bit of land out in the middle of nowhere. We’re thinking of the corridor between Ottawa and Kingston as our destination. It’s wild, rocky, and cheap. The taxes out there are probably not more than $300-$400 per year - if that.

We’d live in the old rickety farmhouse ($30-40k won’t buy you a mansion, even in the middle of nowhere) and build our earthship largely from the materials on the land. Namely wood and stone. (There isn’t much else up there) It would be a very well designed house. We want to be ‘off the grid’ and providing for our own needs as much as possible.

With no mortgage, low taxes, and little or no dependence on Hydro-Quebec we should be able to survive on less than $5k/year. Important, because there’s probably not a lot of income potential in the middle of nowhere.

As far as income goes, I could get my ceramics studio up and running and sell pottery in Kingston, Ottawa and over the internet. I could also continue to build furniture (same sales/marketing tactic) and do stained glass. Under these circumstances, I sure wouldn’t have to run a booming business to do well.

Our young son would come with us and be schooled from home. We’d be withing 2 1/2 hrs from Montreal so visitation with my older son would still happen on a regular basis.

So there’s the basic outline. Any thoughts, comments questions would be greatly appreciated.

2

Sounds like a plan, my friend. Go for it!

In all seriousness, it sounds like you’ve given a lot of thought to it and sounds possible from this end.

One thing to consider: old farmhouses are notoriously inefficient, heat-wise. Spend the money to tighten that sucker up with insulation and spray-in foam insulation to fill the cracks. Heating with wood you harvest from your land, you say? Still, no sense wasting the heat!

Sounds cool! When’s the Dope Fest at the new lodge? :smiley:

3

I was with you there for a while, until you mentioned the off the grid stuff. What do you plan to do for electricity? Build your own plant or just run a generator a lot? Surely you don’t plan on running that wood/glass/ceramics shop with wood generated heat alone. You’d never keep up with the wood cutting chores.

Ditto for that insulation and efficient heat/cooling systems available in modern houses. You know, not all progress is a bad thing. Not much sense in becoming a ludite… unless you already are, in which case - never mind.

My idea of getting away from it all is setting up in a nice new state of the art construction home in Vermont. Near Burlington preferably. Lots of fireplaces, wired for high speed net access. Cozy but spacious wood/craft shop behind the house. Three car garage so I can always have space for that classic little roadster I’ve always wanted.

Now that’s living… IMHO.

4

…and another thought which is perhaps worthy of another thread… or not. If you just want to get away from it all early enough in life to enjoy it, I say kudos to you. But don’t you think doing this just because of the ‘one island’ thing is a bit of an over-reaction? I mean, what’s the absolute worst that will happen? It’s not like this is the appocalipse or anything. Just a thought.

5

Would internet connectivity be possible where you’re planning on going? If not, you may have to rethink your income source.

Otherwise, sounds like a good idea to me. I’m tempted to join you, but I bet you’d be pretty pissed if I set up shop a quarter of a mile from you.

6

I would say, Dewt, that if you plan to move between Ottawa and Kingston, you’d have no dependence on Hydro-Quebec–you’d be in Ontario. :slight_smile:

Okay, enough of that. As you may know, that part of Ontario isn’t exactly “the middle of nowhere.” IIRC, there are small towns and such scattered about, and Highway 7, which is the main road for traffic between Toronto and Ottawa. There is also the highway from Kingston to Ottawa via Smith’s Falls, but I cannot remember its number. You should have no trouble getting any goods or services you want (insulation and Internet connectivity, for example) while avoiding those you don’t want.

As for your earthship project, you should see if you can get in touch with Sunspace, who is another SDMB poster. He was involved in such a project a few years ago, near Bancroft, Ontario (north of Belleville), and he could probably get you in touch with the people who undertook that one. I’m sorry, I don’t know of any links to it, though there must be a few.

I can’t comment on the economics of your plan, but you might learn more about that from Sunspace or his friends near Bancroft. Anyway, good luck!

7

BunnyGirl, it’s been a dream for a long time now. The old farm house would be considered temporary lodging so we could build whatever we build in our own time. We probably wouldn’t put to much $$$ into until way down the road. Then perhaps use it as a bed and breakfast, guest house or maybe just studio space.

QuickSilver, Good question regarding the energy. The answer to that would depend to a large degree on the properties that we look at. Solar, wind, water… depends on the lay of the land. Very likely we’ll explore and determine the best combination. Wood firing a kiln is fun and you can get some pretty cool results. I would probably consider a gas kiln though. I find electric firings bland. The idea would not necessarily be complete independance from the grid.

That is living, IMHO too. That’s why we want to do this.

Ahhh, the “One Island-One City” thing is just a great excuse. We can look like we’re political reactionaries when the reality is we’re just antisocial. :smiley:

C3, internet connectivity is an absolute must. No internet - no move there. Will probably have to give up the high speed tho’. sigh

I would not be pissed if you set up shop a quarter mile from me. Well, maybe… but more because you didn’t think to pool resources and share a shop. Either way it’d be cool. Only a quarter mile to borrow a tool.

Spoons, er… good point about the Hydro-Quebec thing… blush

You’re right… it’s more like the middle of everywhere. Within a couple of hours I could be in Kingston, Ottawa or Montreal. That’s one of the reasons we like it. Plus all the beautiful rock. Point is… nearest neighbour would be out of sight. Clean air. Nature. Ahhhhh. I can’t remember the name of the highway… but that is the corridor we’re looking at most closely.

I’ll check out Sunspace… see if I can track him down. Thanks.

8

Ummm… I may be wrong, but Canada doesn’t strike me as a sunny kind of place. The only place I’ve ever seen successful earthships is in places where it’s very very sunny, like New Mexico (there’s a big earthship community outside of Taos.) IIRC, someone once told me that you couldn’t really do earthships in Colorado (where I live) because there’s not enough sunny days here. And we get something like 320 sunny days a year. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the area you’re looking in doesn’t strike me as especially sunny.

Also, I second the questions “How are you going to get internet access?”

Other than that, it sounds great! Mr. Athena and I have a similiar plan, only instead of going to the middle of nowhere we’re going to relocate to a small town in the middle of nowhere. Sort of like the best of both worlds - we can get groceries, internet connections, etc., but with a 15 minute drive be in the middle of thick forests. Yippee!

9

Here’s seconding BunnyGirl’s comments. And in addition to insulating the house, the windows should probably be replaced when possible. It’s cheaper to conserve heat than to continually pay for it.

As for “no internet, no move there,” have you considered a satellite-dish internet hookup? Some friends of mine in Idaho have such a hookup, and they love it. Fast, too.

10

I like your idea of leaving (most of) the rat race behind. I have my own dreams of a domed retreat in Northern Alberta some day where I can be mostly self-sufficient and able to take advantage of the isolation and lack of society pressures. For me it’s just a fantasy, but it sounds like you are raring to go ahead with your plan. Best of luck to you with your dream.

11

Well, it sure isn’t New Mexico up here, that’s for sure. But we do get sun. And you really don’t need that much to take advantage of passive solar heating. I’d have to do a lot of research before I went out and spent any $$$ on panels- last I heard, they still weren’t all that efficient. We’re a ways away from that anyway.

Also, I use the term ‘earthship’ loosely. The rough plan is half underground earthship/half above ground victorian style. Super-hyper-ultra insulated with specially designed heat/air exchange system that works with convection currents. (My uncle’s design with my improvements)

I’m sure that there will be dial-up access in the area. If we find our heaven and there’s no internet, OrcaChow’s idea of a satelite hook-up might just do the trick. Again, not enough info to say for sure. You can bet your butt that we will be online. I dunno how I ever lived without it.

Conversely, we will be in the middle of the thick forest with a 15 min drive to the nearest small town. :smiley:

featherlou, I’m well known for not having my feet on the ground. That’s kind of why I started this thread. It’s a pretty big gamble, the way I look at it, and most 30yr olds are not talking about retiring. It’s not like we have a whack of money in the bank. If it doesn’t work out, we could potentially be quite screwed.

I think it’s worth the risk though…

isolation…

:: contented sigh ::

no social pressures…

:: shivers ::

(I can just see myself now… buck nekked and running through the woods with bow and arrow… I’d be wearing a birch bark loin cloth and of course covered in mud to protect against the mosquitos and black flies)

12

We did it.

There’s a sign on our front lawn that says ‘for sale’.

woa.

(so if there’s anyone out there looking for a unique fixer upper out in the suburbs of Montreal…)

13

Congrats dewt!

Man how I wish I was in your shoes…
::sigh::

14

Corvus, well thanks. I assume your are speaking figuratively… my feet are known far and wide as, shall we say, undesirable.

To tell the truth, we are scared out of our wits. Last night we sat in the front room, looking at the for sale sign and trying not to have panic attacks. We’ve moved 5 times in the past five years. This will be number 6. And everytime we do, something terrabibble happens.

It all seems so unrealistic.

Most of us have been raised in a society that makes certain assumptions about how one’s life is lived. You go to school and fight for good grades. You get a job with benefits and go there every day. You fight for 25cent raise and follow the same schedule every day. If you’re lucky you get 2 weeks/year vacation and a few days where you’re allowed to be sick. You take loans, get a mortgage and pay your taxes. You have kids and make sure they fit in too…

Actually, when you look at it that way, retreating doesn’t seem like such a wild idea.

Still, it’s freaky scary. Having a stable income out there is going to depend on my getting a studio going and selling my products. Except for a few pots I sold when I was teaching, and a dresser I just finished, I’ve not really earned cash from things I’ve made. (Not that I’ve really tried)

(anybody with a successful online business can feel free to jump right in here…)

15

It sounds like you have been doing a little thinking for yourself about how you want to live your life - good for you. I have nothing but admiration for you to go ahead with a plan to make your life what YOU want it to be. Just think of all the corporate-mentality types that you’ll be pissing off - isn’t it worth it?:slight_smile:

16

Can I hide out at your place during the coming Apocalypse? :smiley:

17

Well hello Dewt!

I am doing almost the same thing! I just moved from, what is to me anyway, a big town to a teenie tiny town, and I live on the outskirts of it. The former town had more than doubled in size since I’d moved there 20 yrs ago, and it was just too hard to take living there anymore. I prefer the term “hermit” to anti-social :smiley: !

I was able to tie my move in with a job change & needed to be here fast, to start work - so I ended up renting, and boy am I glad I did!

I really do not like noise. Esp. motor noise, and there are 2 “areas” around here that are populated with snow machiners. I don’t hate these folks, nor do I wish them gone, but I don’t want to live near them either. I am so glad to be living here but not committed to a (home/property/area of wilderness) that has this type of noise. Just something to think aobut, you might want to do a little “test living” by renting first, if possible for you. I wouldn’t have known before coming here about those areas; it’s taken me over 3 months to get a “feel” for where I want to live & where I don’t.

I can relate to your fear as well, my house is for sale back in town & I am quite often scared shitless. (saves on septic pumping fees :)) I, too, agonize daily over finances, cabin designs, acreage, etc. A lot hinges on the sale of the house, and this being in limbo (doing all the reasearch and stuff, but can’t make a committment until I have the cash from my house) is not fun.

I wish for you all the success that I hope for myself, and I hope you’ll continue post about how it’s all going.

18

I know some people who are building a “traditional” earthship in SW Colorado. We visit them every year or so and see the progress they’ve been making. They’ve been at it for maybe 5-6 years now and it’s really amazing.

If you want to get it done in a reasonable amount of time, you should be prepared to at least hire some strong backs & machines to help with the excavation (if it’s rocky then you could be in for a hell of a time) and pounding tires (if you’re using tires). Not to mention all the tools you’ll need. Another unknown is what the building codes are in that area. This could involve thousands of dollars in blueprints, Architect/engineering stamps, permits, and whatever else. The codes will have to be complied with, if they exist, and you’ll probably have to pay for some modern conveniences. I’m talking from a US perspective, so Canada’s probably different.

If you’re on a severely restricted income, you run the risk of ending up with a half-finished something-or-other so all I can say is scrimp and scrape and save every penny and expect to pay way more than you think you’re going to pay. If you’re not careful you may end up having to use at least a line of credit to get it done (or you can choose to bail out) and you’re right back to owing your ass to The Man.

Remember you have to simultaneously make a living, build an earthship, be a parent, be a husband, enjoy your life, build your ceramic studio, create your ceramics, build furniture, and keep the farmhouse up and running. You’re really taking on a lot.

So I guess my response is, Hey that sounds great, but you need to have a major sit-down with your finances and account for Murphy’s law, which in some cases is just scratching the surface. Read your butts off and get as educated about all the aspects of what you’re going to do as you possibly can. It’s hard work!

19

featherlou, thanks. It’s like a giant leap of faith in a way, moving so far out there…

lizard, do you know exactly when that would be?

lost, renting is something we tried to do last move… or even better, a rent to own… something that, as you said, will allow us to test live the area. It would be ideal if we could test live the home/property that we want to buy. I’m hoping like hell that your house will sell as quickly as I want mine to. ‘Hermit’ it is.

mack, thanks for the dose of realism. I feel like I could use as much of that as possible. The idea that seems to be most prevalant here is to find something that is immediately livable. The earthship can take it’s sweet time coming together and you can bet I’m going to bring in the big machines to dig when the time comes. As for using tires and other traditional earthship techniques, we don’t know yet… so much will depend on the property and our finances.

Ya there’s a lot to do, and me and Murphy go way back. :slight_smile: In fact, we’ve been his special project the last few years. Let no one say we’re doing this because we are lazy. I love hard work and everything involved here is the hard work I love best. There will be no credit and no loans. That is at least have the point to going as far out as we are. Low taxes, self sustaining (as much as possible) lifestyle.

20

That’s funny, I want to get away from it all because I AM lazy. I don’t want to spend the next 30 years of my life slaving away for “The Man” (as mack so aptly put it) for a handfull of dimes. I have this crazy idea that there’s more to life than the pursuit of cars, houses, jewellery, etc., and I want to experience it before I’m too old to enjoy it.