Limbaugh: "Hitler, Lenin, Stalin were all men of the left"

[GIGObuster]

@Scylla

I heard this live today. He made a pretty rational argument with quite a few caveats. First off, he talked about the comparison. Bush was compared to Hitler. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid both compared the town hall protesters to Nazis.

Based on that he felt he had the mandate for a little historical context. He pointed out that several totalitarian and fascist regimes have gotten started from a leftist or socialist viewpoint. Hitler’s Nazi party was the National Socialist party, and they did promote universal healthcare. It was, Rush argues the entry point into totalitarianism. Nationalizing health care gives the government control over every aspect of your life. It makes it all the government’s business, what you eat, how you exercise, how often you go to the doctor, who gets health care. The government gets control over it all.

As another doper mentioned in a recent discussion about this, you ignored that all parties ran in those days promising universal health care, the Nazi version of it was indeed a nightmare.

So, to correct Pelosi, Reid, et al. nationalizing healthcare is much more of a fascist move than protesting said takeover.

:rolleyes:

Now, some of those that were denying Rush his context will jump in to point out that Rush is denying Pelosi and Reid their context, which is that attempting to attack political positions that one doesn’t like with hostile violent protesting crowds is a nazi tactic.

I would then point out that they didn’t think so when Bush was President, and it was just peaceful protest until Obama brought his Union guys in. You would than make some other counterargument which I wouldn’t hear because why would I listen to what you bunch of Nazis have to say anyway?

Meh, like if what you said here made any sense.

Anyway, when all is said and done, I think I’m going to have to give the point to Rush. Not because of anything he said, but because of what Obama did.

That thing about punching back “twice as hard,” is something I find vaguely worrisome, and that site where they ask people to report bad things said about the healtchare plan is not so much vaguely alarming as stupendously terrifying.

(please don’t report me.)

As I pointed before, it is clear to me that the ones that are opposing any changes with the current health care that we have, are in reality fighting to continue to limit the freedom of the American worker.

There is no need to report your kind of willful ignorance to any authority.

[Sampiro]

Here’s a GD thread I started a few months ago: The straight dope on the Nazis: were they left or right/liberal or conservative?

[Scylla]

@GIGObuster

As another doper mentioned in a recent discussion about this, you ignored that all parties ran in those days promising universal health care, the Nazi version of it was indeed a nightmare.

I didn’t ignore it, so much as laugh at such an idiotic statement. “All parties?” Really? wow.

Meh, like if what you said here made any sense.

Inability to comprehend simple ideas is often a sign of brain trauma.

As I pointed before, it is clear to me that the ones that are opposing any changes with the current health care that we have, are in reality fighting to continue to limit the freedom of the American worker.

Anytime someone tells me they are going to increase freedom of the people by taking greater control of their lives, I check their shirts for swastikas. If I don’t find any I put the cognitive dissonance down to either fanaticism of brain damage. Though, in the end, what’s the diff?

There is no need to report your kind of willful ignorance to any authority.

The fact that their is a government authority to which I might be reported is a pretty fucking scary fact.

[Scylla]

Just to clear the air, I don’t equate anybody in this debate with nazis or fascism. I do think that pointing out that a socialist agenda is vulnerable to authoritarian hijacking is a valid cautionary statement.

[elucidator]

@Scylla

…(please don’t report me.)

Hello, ACORN? Yeah, listen, I want to turn in Scylla! Am I first? Oh, well, that’s a disappoint…how many? Really?..ran out of toaster ovens before eight?..Wow.

[BrainGlutton]

@Scylla

Anytime someone tells me they are going to increase freedom of the people by taking greater control of their lives, I check their shirts for swastikas.

Again, why has what you fear not come to pass in Canada, the UK, all the EU countries, etc., etc.?

[Raygun99]

Was the Pelosi reference to her saying “they were carrying Swastikas”? Because some of them, literally, were carrying posters of Obama with Swastikas on them.

[GIGObuster]

@Scylla

I didn’t ignore it, so much as laugh at such an idiotic statement. “All parties?” Really? wow.

Yes, really, as virtually all European nations have it now, it was not a very controversial topic.

On top of that, the Nazis only could promise to continue and expand on what already was there:

http://www.photius.com/countries/germany/society/germany_society_development_of_the_h~1372.html

Nearly everyone residing in Germany is guaranteed access to high-quality comprehensive health care. Statutory health insurance (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung–GKV) has provided an organizational framework for the delivery of public health care and has shaped the roles of payers, insurance or sickness funds, and providers, physicians, and hospitals since the Health Insurance Act was adopted in 1883. In 1885 the GKV provided medical protection for 26 percent of the lower-paid segments of the labor force, or 10 percent of the population. As with social insurance, health insurance coverage was gradually extended by including ever more occupational groups in the plan and by steadily raising the income ceiling. Those earning less than the ceiling were required to participate in the insurance program. In 1995 the income ceiling was an annual income of about DM70,00 in the old Länder and DM57,600 in the new Länder .

In 1901 transport and office workers came to be covered by public health insurance, followed in 1911 by agricultural and forestry workers and domestic servants, and in 1914 by civil servants. Coverage was extended to the unemployed in 1918, to seamen in 1927, and to all dependents in 1930.

@Scylla

Inability to comprehend simple ideas is often a sign of brain trauma.

As the cite shows, indeed. But you still have other brains, you monster.

@Scylla

Anytime someone tells me they are going to increase freedom of the people by taking greater control of their lives, I check their shirts for swastikas. If I don’t find any I put the cognitive dissonance down to either fanaticism of brain damage. Though, in the end, what’s the diff?

Here is the reality, you are in favor of keeping a good chunk of the American workers under the fear of bankruptcy, to limit their freedoms to seek or start a job or a company and to put limitations on foreign companies or start ups on setting shop in the USA.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11353708&postcount=458

@Scylla

The fact that their is a government authority to which I might be reported is a pretty fucking scary fact.

I prefer then to admire the bravery of the rest of the industrialized word rather than heard the opinion of cowards.

Taiwan Takes Fast Track to Universal Health Care

Taiwan Takes Fast Track to Universal Health Care

To satisfy the patients in Taiwan, there’s no gatekeeper who controls access to specialists and no waiting lines.

If you woke up in Taiwan with shoulder pain, for example, Chang says that you would be able to see an orthopedic specialist the same morning, no recommendation from a general practitioner required.

“Our people don’t like the idea of gatekeepers. They want to decide by themselves,” Chang says.

Don’t Forget Your Smart Card

By consolidating so much — one government plan that covers everybody — Taiwan achieves remarkable efficiency.

Everybody here has to have a smart card to go to the doctor. The doctor puts it in a reader and the patient’s history and medications all show up on the screen. The bill goes directly to the government insurance office and is paid automatically.

So Taiwan has the lowest administrative costs in world: less than 2 percent.

They also use that smart card to track patterns of use.

“If a patient goes to see a doctor or hospital over 20 times a month, or 50 times in a three-month period, then the IT picks that person out. The person then gets a visit from the government, the Bureau of National Health Insurance, and they have a little chat. And this works very well,” Cheng says.

That may be too much like Big Brother for some people in the United States, but surveys show the Taiwanese are highly satisfied with their health care.

Plus, no one goes bankrupt because of medical bills, Chang says.

A Strained System

So the patients are safe from bankruptcy. But the system itself is under strain. Chang says that Taiwan spends 6.23 percent of its GDP on health care, compared to 16 percent in America.

So the United States spends too much on health care, and doesn’t even cover everybody. But the Taiwanese don’t bring in enough money to pay for all the services they offer.

“So actually, as we speak, the government is borrowing from banks to pay what there isn’t enough to pay the providers,” Cheng says.

Taiwan’s politicians are reluctant to increase premiums: they’re afraid the voters will punish them.

So that’s the problem here. And frankly, the solution is fairly obvious: increase the spending a little, to maybe 8 percent of GDP.

Of course, if Taiwan did that,** it would still be spending less than half of what America spends**.

[Plan_B]

@Raygun99

Was the Pelosi reference to her saying “they were carrying Swastikas”? Because some of them, literally, were carrying posters of Obama with Swastikas on them.

When she said they were carrying swastikas she clearly was referring to them as Nazis. You know that. Otherwise she would have said “They refer to our leader as a Nazi.”

Also there were not posters but poster, at least as of this afternoon I had only seen one photo of a protester with a sign suggesting that Obama is a Nazi. How many of those did you see referring to POTUS from January, 2001 to January , 2009? And what about the term “Bushitler?” How often did you hear that? Or say it yourself? And how often did Pelosi complain about it?

I think Rush slam dunked her on this one.

[GIGObuster]

@Plan_B

Also there were not posters but poster, at least as of this afternoon I had only seen one photo of a protester with a sign suggesting that Obama is a Nazi. How many of those did you see referring to POTUS from January, 2001 to January , 2009? And what about the term “Bushitler?” How often did you hear that? Or say it yourself? And how often did Pelosi complain about it?

I think Rush slam dunked her on this one.

Err, no, he turned idiot when he decided to expand the explanation and put Hitler as a men of the left.

[Plan_B]

^^

John Leo of the Manhattan Institute elaborates:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/08/nancys_nazi_shock_did_she_forget_the_bush_years_97812.html

[Raygun99]

@Plan_B

When she said they were carrying swastikas she clearly was referring to them as Nazis. You know that. Otherwise she would have said “They refer to our leader as a Nazi.”

Also there were not posters but poster, at least as of this afternoon I had only seen one photo of a protester with a sign suggesting that Obama is a Nazi. How many of those did you see referring to POTUS from January, 2001 to January , 2009? And what about the term “Bushitler?” How often did you hear that? Or say it yourself? And how often did Pelosi complain about it?

I think Rush slam dunked her on this one.

I know no such thing. The comment came in the context of whether she felt the protesters were engaging in rational debate. Someone carrying a poster with a swastika on it (from the right or the left - if you think you’ve caught me in some double standard, you’re ridiculously wrong) have abandoned that. Now, I’m not particularly upset about someone carrying a swastika poster - mostly I roll my eyes at them for the ridiculous comparison (much as with many other tactics based on bumper sticker advocacy), but I do feel they’ve exited the rational adult train.

Edit to add: Your link to RCP doesn’t make the claim that Pelosi was calling them Nazis. And if there are Swastikas there, either they are are Nazis or they’re using them as a rhetorical device. In which case we’re back to square one. Furthermore, that some on the radical left have used the comparison for Bush does not invalidate criticism of using it against Obama. It’s as clear a tu quoque as you’re going to get.

[Plan_B]

@GIGObuster

Err, no, he turned idiot when he decided to expand the explanation and put Hitler as a men of the left.

Very clever response. Ignore everything I said and call Rush an idiot with no logic to back it up. If you had even bothered to glance at the thread you would see lots of evidence that Hitler was a man of the left.

So was Stalin.

So was Mao.

In fact that would mean the three worst mass murderers in history were all leftists.

Maybe it was dumb of Rush to forget to include Mao.

[Plan_B]

@cosmosdan

So, let’s see the nazi reference.

Here you go:

http://video.newsmax.com/Manage/Videos/VideoGallery/Pelosi--Town-Hall-Protesters-Carry-Swastikas

[cosmosdan]

@Scylla

I heard this live today. He made a pretty rational argument with quite a few caveats. First off, he talked about the comparison. Bush was compared to Hitler. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid both compared the town hall protesters to Nazis.

okay I looked it up and wasn’t surprised to find it was bullshit. Unless you’d care to show otherwise, Pelosi and Ried did not compare town hall protesters to Nazis. Otherwise perhaps you’d be interested in retracting that falsehood.

[GIGObuster]

@Plan_B

^^

John Leo of the Manhattan Institute elaborates:

Nancy's Nazi Shock: Did She Forget the Bush Years? | RealClearPolitics

Meh, when I was in protests against Bush I was glad to tell anyone that brandished a “Bush is Hitler” poster that they were idiots.

What is notorious of that piece from the Manhattan Institute: the writer never once condemns the actions of the ones that today are doing the equation.

[cosmosdan]

@Plan_B

Here you go:

http://video.newsmax.com/Manage/Videos/VideoGallery/Pelosi--Town-Hall-Protesters-Carry-Swastikas

Thanks. That’s the same thing I saw when I looked it up. It’s bullshit. I don’t even like Pelosi but it’s dishonest to say she compared the protesters to Nazis. She did not.

[Rhythmdvl]

Factcheck.org:

Nazi Symbols at Town Halls: The Real Story

@Pelosi

I think they are Astroturf. You be the judge … carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.

After doing some investigating to authenticate images posted on blog sites, CNN addressed the controversy on Friday. Host Rick Sanchez showed a photo of a woman outside a Fort Collins, Colo., meeting with a sign that featured a swastika with a slash through it. Another photo from Denver is of a child in a stroller who is obscured by a sign bearing the words “No to Fascism”; it also bears a slashed-through swastika. There’s another photo of a doctored image of Obama with a Hitler mustache, and one of a sign that uses the symbol associated with Hitler’s SS troops.
…
Pelosi did not actually accuse opponents of being neo-Nazis; that’s just the way Limbaugh and others chose to interpret her phrase, “carrying swastikas and symbols like that.” It is clear from the images in hand that the anti-Obama protesters were the ones accusing others of Nazi-like tendencies. And Pelosi turns out to be right.

(emphasis added)

CNN video on the site.

[GIGObuster]

@Plan_B

Very clever response. Ignore everything I said and call Rush an idiot with no logic to back it up.

Says the guy that ignored the historical cites.

@Plan_B

If you had even bothered to glance at the thread you would see lots of evidence that Hitler was a man of the left.

Really? You will base that on what the Nazis promised they would do?

I’m afraid that then you are sorry that the 3rd reight just lasted 10 years, their actions failed to match those promises.

@Plan_B

So was Stalin.

So was Mao.

In fact that would mean the three worst mass murderers in history were all leftists.

Maybe it was dumb of Rush to forget to include Mao.

Yes he was.

Unlike you I do assign blame to the radicals of the left, when I see right wingers doing stupid contortions to avoid seeing the causes of the rise of right wing radical dictators (German capitalists got Hitler to get rid of Rolm and the SA) I can only point at how pathetic right wingers are.

[Ludovic]

It amazing how people who claim to hate everything about the Nazis find them Honest Good People when looking at their political promises. Yeah, the Nazis were a lot more honest about the planks in their platform than our two current parties :rolleyes: