Same here. I can understand why one wouldn’t want older men to look at one’s naked daughter seeing as that’s exposing one’s child to a threat.
But how can an adult woman be harmed by a 4-6 year old boy looking at her?
The first reason I thought of was that a lot of women are afraid of looking bad/not keeping their modesty in front of males, even if those males don’t have any attraction towards them and wouldn’t judge their appearance harshly.
But then I remembered a woman telling me that she and her friends didn’t mind when a gay guy changed with them.
If you’ll allow a slight hijack, would women here be comfortable with a gay man in a women’s changing room?
Many of us gals are simply modest. We simply like our privacy. Some are uncomfortable about other *women *looking at them. While a few walk around with little or nothing on in the locker room, most wrap themselves in towels to some extent. The little boys I occasionally see are certainly not a threat, but it’s uncomfortable when they are obviously studying what they see.
Yes, I would also object to permitting a gay man in the women’s room. For starters, how do I know he’s really gay?
It’s weird – I don’t think sex is “bad,” or a nude body shameful in any way. But I think most of us don’t like to be on dispay. There’s a reason some body parts are called “private parts.”
Yeah. If little boys want to see naked women, they can go to the internet like everyone else; I’m not available for them to study when I’m just trying to do a little swimming. I think the bottom line is I get to choose who sees me naked, not some other woman.
I’d see no problem with telling the management that it makes you uncomfortable, if they think you’re being silly then they can ignore you. I’d give the moms the benefit of the doubt and assume there’s some reason they’re not using the family room, maybe it’s not as nice or it just never occurred to them that it’s for them. All the more reason to bring it to mgmt. I’ve noticed that in general every gym has some “house rules” or little conventions that you have to figure out by going there a few times, I’ve often thought that some places could do a better job of introducing new members.
The thing with little kids is that sometimes they haven’t learned the art of tactfully averting their eyes. If an adult woman were to stare at me while I was changing then I’d find that weird too.
As far as the children go, it depends on your family’s own views regarding nudity. I am less concerned about the children seeing nudity of the opposite sex than with whether or not those being viewed are comfortable with it. I don’t think a young child is going to be scarred or even negatively affected by seeing naked strangers (in the proper context- changing clothes etc. not engaging in sexual situations) but I do think those strangers could be somewhat affected (not necessarily harmed) by being seen.
I have very few personal boundaries so I wouldn’t really care who was in the changing room with me. Gay, straight, men, lesbian women, children, dogs, cats…if someone sees me changing clothes or exiting the shower, it wouldn’t phase me a bit. But I seem to be exception and the quotes below are more typical of what I find to be “normal”.
I think that it is up to us as parents to understand this and to behave accordingly as it pertains to bringing our children with us to such places in the interests of polite society in general.
It varies by where and how one was raised and social mores are not always the same everywhere, but in the US it is pretty established that most women are uncomfortable being viewed while nude or partially nude. It doesn’t matter why they are uncomfortable or even if everyone is uncomfortable, all that matters is that they are (or might be) and I think that should be respected. The women’s locker room is meant for the majority of women, and it is good business for the gym in question to enforce a “no opposite sex” rule in order to keep the majority happy and comfortable (and especially if they provide a “family” area where the problem of Mom with son or Dad with daughter is easily handled) even if there are a few of us who don’t really care either way.
Over here (UK) I’ve only seen two changing rooms with an age cut-off, and that was age 7. One of them did have a family changing room but it was always locked. Perhaps, if you were a woman with a seven year old boy, you could ask for the family room to be unlocked; some seven year olds, when left alone, either wouldn’t be able to get changed and showered properly or would take about three hours about it and leave half their stuff behind.
At the other one I sometimes took my daughter’s friend with me when he was 5 and 6 years old. He was very young for his age mentally - there was no way he could have coped with getting changed by himself - but he looked about 11.
After one time when a woman made a complaint I made a point of finding a way to say his age loud enough for women nearby to hear me. I can understand people feeling awkward, but just because a kid looks old doesn’t always mean he is. Kids weren’t allowed to use the pool after a certain time of day, anyway, so most adults could avoid them if they really wanted.
Or they could just use the cubicles. I never understood why some women there would get changed in the open when loads of cubicles were free.
Most other swimming pools I’ve used since then have changing rooms which are pretty much unisex, but you wear your costume in the shower and everyone gets changed in cubicles, some of which are big enough for fairly large families to get changed together, so really nobody’s going to see any more than they would in the pool itself.
The other parts of the leisure centre, like the gym and the badminton court, have their own seperate changing rooms - dry changing rooms - which do have some communal changing areas. I don’t think they have rules about age because their users are almost entirely adults and children old enough to visit the centre on their own, so the issue doesn’t come up.
3 or 4 would be an odd cutoff. That’d be far too young to go in the men’s locker room and get changed on their own. At that age a kid could easily wander off and get into trouble - it just wouldn’t be safe.
In fairness, a little girl might ask the same kind of question.
The age group/sex combination I hate to be in the locker room with most are 13-15 year old girls. Girls those age with their friends can be nasty mean about naked strangers.
Well, I don’t. In fact I’m sure there have been some, as it would seem to me to be odd if out of all the women I’ve shared the locker room with there would not have been at least a few. I’ve never seen anyone, however, who seemed to be especially interested in checking out the goods, so to speak, other than the occasional giggly teen and pre-teen girls who whisper and giggle about everything. Somehow a woman looking at parts that are more or less the same as what she already owns is not discomforting.
Also, the gym I go to is not one of those that attracts people trying to “hook up,” of any persuasion. It’s associated with a rehab facility, and a fair number of the people are in terrible shape, elderly or obviously recovering from injury. That’s one of the reasons I chose it; I don’t feel like I’m being looked down on for being as old as I am and overweight. I have been (briefly) in facilities that were mostly used by young and fit people, and I would bet a fair number of the attendees were there to show off how good looking they were and to find somebody equally buff.
So it sounds like the issue is not really that might be a young boy present, but your own reaction to what a boy might say when he sees your body, the same way you have reacted with somewhat older girls? Perhaps the answer lies inside you rather than asking society at large, or the management of every gym in particular, to protect you from your insecurities?
No, that’s not it. And it’s not *every *gym. Just the one I chose. Like I said, maybe I’m overly sensitive, or overly modest. I have become o.k. with being undressed in front of other women.
If the kid’s three or four, then it wouldn’t be fair to expect them to go and get changed in a different room on their own. Still, I can understand you feeling a bit weirded out. If they don’t have cubicles you could use, could you go in the evening when kids are unlikely to be there? Or would taking something like a towelling robe help?
It’s not that big a deal, really, or even that frequent, and I usually am there after work. This mostly occurs on the weekends. No, there aren’t changing cubicles unless you want to go into a toilet stall. Like I said originally, there is a specific family changing room area for parents with opposite sex kids, so I would really rather these moms use that area.
Going back to **not_alice’s **comment, it may well be that I am overly sensitive and should just deal with it, that’s why I asked the question, to see if others felt the same way.
but as mentioned in the OP, the gym in question has a family changing room. So the alternative isn’t that the 4-year old boys change by themselves in the mens room, it’s that their moms take them to the family changing rooms set aside for their use. (ETA: sorry, am repeating last post)
I guess I don’t get it - at 3 or 4, is there a general fear among women at gyms that boys are sexualized already, or would be if they were in the locker room?
Is there a long term concern for the sexual health of the boy here, and if so, is it better concerned by seeing all sorts of bodies as normal at that age, or by teaching the kid that women are shamed of their own bodies, and there is something wrong about seeing them?
At the gym I attend, there are separate Men’s, Women’s, and Family locker rooms. In the family section there is a locker area, but also several totally private ‘cabanas’.
It is within these cabanas that all changing, showering, peeing & pooing and any sort of nekkid-ness occur.
I assumed all family changing areas were similarly private (?)
The YMCA where I go has a policy of no kids over 6 in the family locker rooms.
I don’t know about the men’s showers, but the women’s are communal, except there is one that can be closed off with a curtain.
The only problem I saw was I think the family room needed to be divided into “mothers with daughtesr” and “mothers with sons” sections–not for the toddlers, but for the 4- and 5-year-olds. And there was room for that.
There was also a men’s family dressing room, for men with kids along, which also happened.
The thing is, not only do you not want to send your 4-year-old into the same-sex locker room by him/herself, but kids that age are not particularly good at putting themselves back together after swimming. I know my son would NEVER have gotten into the shower without me there, hence no shower before and he’d have chlorine skin and chlorine hair after until I could get him home. But he would have told me he showered.
It probably wouldn’t have been appropriate in Europe either; from my limited experience (Iceland’s public pools), children who are of school age (6 or so) are required to use their own gender’s changing room. It’s just assumed that the child isn’t likely to be kidnapped while in public at one of these facilities.
Personally, I think the paranoia and lack of awareness of others’ privacy that parents of these 7-13 year old boys exhibit is the biggest part of the problem; it’s not the boys’ presence so much as the boys* tend to gawk at the other people in the changing room and the moms never seem to do anything about it. Regardless of the fact that I’m not all that shy about nudity or changing in a women’s locker room, I grew up with the notion that it’s not okay to be staring at the other people in the locker room-- you’re there to change, shower, and get ready for working out/swimming/leaving the building. This doesn’t include taking a visual inventory of all the other inhabitants in the room while they’re in states of undress, and it’s a behavior that a lot of parents seem to forget to correct while taking their kids into these areas; I had to learn it when I was younger as well-- nobody is born with the understanding that other people don’t like to be stared at. I don’t care all that much as long as I don’t feel like my privacy is being invaded, and that only really happens when I’m in a bathroom stall and I can see someone’s small child actively peeking in at me-- regardless of the sex, it’s rude.
*Little girls do this too, but it’s a little less obvious at times if only for the fact that they’re in their own gender’s changing room.
ETA:
Why? If the mom has more than two kids she’s trying to wrangle, then the dad or some other parental/family/family friend may have to come along to help get the kids prepped at the pool.