I’m perhaps not your typical Brit, but let me give you my perspective from where I am holidaying right now, Austria.
The spas and pool changing areas are often multi-gender. The family areas pretty much always are.
Everyone gets naked and showered together. All ages, all genders.
No-one, absolutely no-one considers this weird.
I personally find it refreshing and relaxing to not have to do the towel dance just because someone of the “shock” opposite gender might catch a glimpse of my piste-toned body. (OK, I may have enhanced that statement slightly)
There is nothing sexual about nudity unless you want there to be. I was having a conversation with a Danish couple in the sauna about how they travelled to the resort and what route they took. OK, not riveting and stereotypically English but believe me, the last thing on my mind in 85C temperature was sex of any kind. I was just about able to worry about the snarl-up on the Munich ring-road.
Honestly, the excessive prudishness of people does amaze me, and I speak as an Englishman, Christ…we invented it!
I’m a man, but have to say that I’d be far more worried about the possibility of a child snatcher or pervert hanging out in the men’s bathroom hoping some unattended little 4 year boy walks in than I would be about offending some overly prudish women.
Seriously, suck it up and don’t be so selfish about your privacy issues over the welfare of children. Boys don’t hit puberty until they are way past 10, and a 7 year old kid should not be creeping you out. Dress with your towel covering you if it is such a big deal. I agree there is a point where kids should be able to go to a changing room by themselves, but it is less related to their ability to dress than their ability to look out for themselves and possibly deal with aggressive/harmful adults.
You’d love the woman at my gym who is clearly very proud of her new body, either through surgery or a rigorous exercise regime. She stands stark naked in front of the mirror where we’re all drying our hair,trying not to look, and rubs lotion all over her body while examining herself from every angle. Show off!
The gender issue is resolved in my gym at age 7 but I’ve seen very few 7 year old boys in there. When hubby took the girls swimming, he’d just settle down with a newspaper and a coffee and waiting for them to stop dilly dallying in the women’s shower. For women who are uncomfortable with boys looking at them (or women tired of listening to screaming babies), there is a completely separate, adults only section of the change room. Seems to work just fine
…Or parents just shouldn’t bring their kids to the gym in that kind of situation. It might suck, but you do give stuff up when you have kids, especially when they’re young. Find a babysitter, or some gym buddies who can watch your kid in the locker room or go for a run around the block. I don’t see that this is such an inevitable situation that other women (or men) should be called “selfish” because they aren’t interested in changing in front of 10-year olds of the opposite gender.
Myself, I think 10 is obviously old enough to use the locker room on one’s own. I’d say that kids older than 6 or so should be able to do it.
That being said - I’m just not seeing a compelling case for those with the modesty concerns to impose them on others. Why are they not required to simply stay at home? What if I say I’m not interested in changing in front of gay men? Can I make them stay at home, too?
Kids need to be on locker rooms because, in a cold climate, that is the passport to such things as learning to swim - best done when a kid is 4-5, I’ve been told, and best done in a pool, requiring use of a locker room to access. A kid that young can’t use a locker room on his own and in the absence of a “family” room, the only choice is to go in with a parent - and in many cases, that will be mom (if the kid is a boy) or dad (if a girl). I don’t see why kids should forego that, because some folks have issues.
There has never been a separate adult only area in any change room I’ve ever been in. If they were available, I would never use anything else - nothing gets babies screaming like taking off a swimsuit, apparently.
I think I’m done with this discussion - I don’t like people bringing their boys who are old enough to enjoy looking at tits and bushes into the change room when I’m in it, and I doubt I ever will. I have no problem with people thinking I’m a prude; I’m getting too old to worry about pleasing everybody.
I’m not following you re. the “splitting the choices in 2 parts” stuff. Regardless, as I see it, the parent who imposes their kid upon a locker room of 20 or so other people is being selfish if half, or even a quarter - or even an eighth - of those people are likely uncomfortable with it. It’s one person putting his or her own comfort over the discomfort of several more people. That’s selfish.
I pulled 10-year olds from the post I was responding to, which said “Boys don’t hit puberty until they are way past 10…”, which I interpreted as saying that boys up to age 10 are fine in opposite-sex locker rooms, seeing as how they’re “way” far away from puberty. If that was not the intent, I cheerfully withdraw that part of it.
Example: My Father used to let me cut the cake in half, and my sister got to pick which half she wanted. You can be sure I cut it perfectly down the middle
How are they to know you are uncomfortable? Do you wear a scarlet letter?
What if it wasn’t an issue of age or gender but race? Or someone in a wheelchair that made someone “uncomfortable”?
OK. That one did raise the bar on the rest of the thread I think.
Not the intent. My full quote was “Boys don’t hit puberty until they are way past 10, and a 7 year old kid should not be creeping you out.”
I’m Just trying to illustrate how a 7 yr old is still quite a ways from puberty. It could happen at 10 for a small minority - but likely quite a bit older for most.
And what is selfish about taking your kid to a swimming pool?
Also, I really think a distinction needs to be made between these two situations.
A change room that has 1 entry/exit
A change room that has 2 or more, as is common at many swimming pools.
I have far more sympathy for parents bringing in older opposite sex children at the latter. This is because I care not for my own privacy versus being able to secure the safety over one’s own child.
They aren’t comparable situations, since you are demanding that the other person not use the facility. They are not demanding that you not use the facility.
Take other examples. Is a Black person "selfish’ for using a pool, if it makes a goodly percentage of White folks also using the pool “uncomfortable”? Or a gay person? They are putting their comfort and convenience over the comfort of all those other folks!
Get a babysitter? What use would a babysitter be if you’re taking your kid to a swimming pool? I don’t think parents are taking their kids to locker rooms because the parent has been using the gym.
TBF, it depends at what age you think your discomfort over-rides the risks of sending a kid off on their own.
Most 7 year olds and above can get changed on their own, and for the few that can’t (my daughter still can’t quite manage on her own at the age of eleven; she’s autistic), then they should be entitled to use the changing room/cubicle for people with disabilities, assuming there is one. They’re also more likey to have friends of their own age and can keep an eye out for each other.
But if you think 3, 4 and 5 year olds should be sent off on their own, then that would be unreasonable (6 is a grey area). The majority of kids that age couldn’t get changed by themselves. They’d be unable to find their way around the room and could easily get lost. And, well, they wouldn’t exactly be capable of fending off someone who’d realised that the pool was like a kwik-e-mart for little naked boys on their own. At that age, your discomfort really is less important than the safety of the kid.
In the midwest 1970s to the mid 80s boys were forced to swim naked infront of female teachers in public and private schools.Also in England. Very common practice. Apparently a way to make boys behave.
ARTICLE READ
Then we get to this other article… please take a second to read this all parents this is a blog that made my heart stop, honestly made me sick and I think parents need to be aware of these things.
ARTICLE READ
I find it weird how it seems little boys really have no place to go. And no one is in a hurry to accommodate the parents of boys. Why are boys such a hassle and why does a adult woman feel threatened by a 3-7 yo boy has the media made everyone so scared of men that THEY DONT EVEN GET A CHANCE. There innocent, why If your a parent do you not understand that children have curiosities… I really hope you aren’t saying that boys are ogling women at that age and in a sense saying they will use those images later… cause its just curiosity , your telling me if you bought a girl in men’s locker room at that age that, she would just stand there and not look and be curious?
I think its more awkward when a girl decides she wants to play male sports in grammer and high school, and when the girl feels like shes missing out by not being in the locker room for any talks about the game , there are cases out there right now where a court has decided to allow 10- 15 yo girls to change in the boys locker room. It is very apparent we will drop all rules for girls and just adopt made up rules for boys.
Seriously there is one thing everyone here forgets as PARENTS we made a CHOICE to have a kid or children, WHEN you make CHOICES some doors open and some doors close… Just because you don’t think its right doesn’t mean you can take matters into your own hands.
I.E. --The women who say they don’t trust there boys in the men’s locker room because of the men, so they always run in after them to check on the boys… with no care about how the men in the locker room or bathroom feel about the women being in there,9 times out of 10 the women just walk in and when we ask them to leave at my gym they just ignore you. Whats that old saying us men apparently just have to accept… once you’ve seen one penis you’ve seen them all… NOT for nothing but we can say the same things about naked women. Why is it that anyone feels entitled, because they make a CHOICE to steal away PRIVACY rights of the opposite gender.
Here’s a IDEA shower at home, get a babysitter, or maybe ask a worker at the gym to accompany or at least stand by in the locker room while your son is in the men’s room!
Thanks
This website kinda explains what kind of label is already waiting for our sons. And it shows the labels waiting for them once they hit the age of 5 APPARENTLY.
I don’t think parents are taking their kids to locker rooms because the parent has been using the gym.