So you are going to retract your desire to keep civil war statues or you don’t care that it is criminal racists that ran them?
Nothing “legally entitles” you to use any companies products if you aren’t willing to agree to their conditions. Or are you arguing that the government should provide white men unfettered access to incite violence?
This is just a lazy non answer.
I don’t know whether to be horrified or just facepalm.
So pony up.
I disagree with the article’s assumption that anti-immigration is also racist. Those are two separate properties that may have a correlation but aren’t always linked.
Confederate icons or symbols bother me as much as the Lenin statue in the Pacific NW does. Which is not at all. I also don’t care who put them up. I do think the constant battles over who or what is worthy to exist are counterproductive.
What in the world are you talking about? Your statement and question have 0 relevance to what you quoted.
Not necessarily. But a LOT of people are anti-immigration are acting out of racism. It’s nothing new – it was that way in the past. The whole “MY ancestors came here LEGALLY” forgets that a.) that doesn’t mean they weren’t given shit; and b.) the immigration process has changed a lot since then, and it’s not nearly as easy as it was back in the day.
YOU may not care, but I think people have a legit reason to care. A lot of them were put up to protest integration (the same as the whole Confederate flag thing in the South), and for the ones that weren’t, why have monuments to a bunch of racist traitors who didn’t even want to be part of this country in the first place?
As for Lenin? Fuck him, he was a murderous tyrant. Most people just give him a pass because Stalin was so much worse.
You do get that statue is privately owned and on private property. Why are you so anti 1st amendment?
Are you saying that people should be censored?
I live a few blocks from that statue, and trust me it is not revered like the racists do with the confederate alters.
Typically it looks like this.
I would like to see the slavery worshipers put a plaque describing the atrocity of slavery and those committed by their precious cultural icons
It is a bit worse for wear in this picture, but despite the communist hate tropes it wouldn’t ever be here under government sanction. Unlike the shrines to slavery that exist in other locations.
Now THAT is cool. If they did something like that to the Confederate statues, like an Andy Warhol thing, or something, I’d go for it.
rat avatar, I just wrote that I had no problem with it. I’m beginning to think you are borderline illiterate or just very dishonest.
eta. It’s sort of rude to make someone’s statue all “pretty” like that.
Nope, I just remember all of your statue outrage posts with daily caller links.
And I also know the people running the rallies had crap like this on their twitter feeds.
But you would only know this side of the story
In other words, a mocked war trophy doesn’t make it OK for bigots to have state sponsored slave worship.
If this were inherent to being black, wouldn’t it show up in all black cultures worldwide? Because it doesn’t.
The issues you’re describing are based on economics, not ethnicity - they hold true for any population that lives in poverty combined with a high incarceration rate for males.
Not relevant. Your dishonesty is deliberately lying about the words you quote. You do it repeatedly. I clearly said I had no problem with something and then you say I said the opposite. Why that’s a habit with you I don’t know.
No.
Asians, as a group, Jews, as a group, do not have this toxic culture and even when they start out poor, are able (as a group) to rise out of poverty. Because they do not have this toxic culture.
Do you feel there is something inherent in black people that makes it impossible for them to use condoms, or pay attention in school?
Fact: 72% of all black children in the US are born to unwed mothers. Fact: Most black children grow up without the long-term presence of a father in their home. Fact: Single female-headed households are strongly at risk for poverty. Fact: Children raised in a father-absent household are at greatly increased risk for all the pathologies that afflict blacks in America - poverty, academic failure, crime, etc.
Correct. And a major solution to helping people out of that environment is for those people not to perpetuate the environment by their culture.
And to deny the toxic culture is a cop out from people taking responsibility for their own actions.
No, we covered that. The claim is that even (white) people who aren’t racist, and don’t discriminate, are still responsible for cleaning up other people’s yard.
I am not throwing trash into anyone’s yard. I am pointing out that the fact that my neighbor is throwing trash into his own already badly littered yard doesn’t help his problem.
Regards,
Shodan
You acknowledge that there’s nothing fundamentally different about black people. They’re essentially the same as white people or Asian people or Ashkenazi Jews or any other group of people.
The reason they have things like crime and unemployment and drug use and illegitimacy and broken homes and bad education is because they live in different conditions than other people live. We can argue about what the conditions should be called but we both agree that it’s the conditions that are the problem, not the people who live in those conditions.
It doesn’t matter if we call those conditions toxic culture or we call it racism. We should be changing those conditions.
No, but that is the case that you keep trying to make.
And fact, that number is going down, at a rate that is faster than that of white people.
I disagree. To call it a toxic culture is to require that they fix the problem themselves, and refuse to take any responsibility for the culpability of how they got into those problems in the first place.
To at least acknowledge that it is the environment, an environment created by society with policies starting with kidnapping and enslavement, going through various levels of oppression by not just society, but by the government itself, and even when it was no longer legal to discriminate, people still did. This prevented most black families from joining in the economic gains in the 60’s and 70’s, leaving hem far behind. To not acknowledge that this was the doing of society for the benefit of whites at the expense of black is to simply deny reality, as is denying the continuing harms that persist from those policies.
That is because you still benefit from the power structure that harms blacks. You don’t have to be a racist to get a benefit from this, and you don’t have to be a racist for a black person to be harmed.
Yet, you still reap the benefits, while denying any iota of responsibility.
No, you are pointing out that you are assuming that all the trash in his yard is his own doing, and refusing to see with your own eyes not only your neighbor’s dumping, but that you toss your occasional piece of litter over there as well. You make this assumption because you are predisposed to assume that that neighbor is trashy, and so any trash must be his own fault.
But, to continue your analogy. How long should someone continue to clean up the trash that others throw into their yard, before they say “Fuck it!” and stop cleaning it up. All it would take at this point is for them to toss a cigarette butt on top of the trash heap that your neighbors have made, and you say, “See, there! There! The mess is ALL of his own making!”
Well, no, according to Shodan, people who do not like the conditions that they live in should be solely responsible for changing them themselves, no matter how those conditions came about, or who benefited from creating them.
If someone robs you and throws you down a well, and you now have two broken legs and two broken arms, then that sounds like the sort of condition that you may not like. It is your responsibility to fix your broken limbs and climb out of the well.
And fewer such unwed mothers are having babies now than in past decades. This is a fact. This is a good thing, right? Whatever is causing this, whether culture or racism or other or some combination, has been improving for 50 years. This is a great thing for America, right, that this has been getting better for so long? Or do you think the fact that fewer unmarried black women are having babies than in the past is a bad thing?
Or do you think that this fact should just be ignored because the fact that even fewer married black women are having babies (whether this is a good or bad thing, I don’t know) skews this percentage?
Seriously. I don’t get it. I show a fact that something with black people has been improving steadily for 50 years, and you totally dismiss it. You don’t find it important or relevant or interesting at all.
Sometimes I think you’re a decent person who has compassion for other people regardless of skin color. Sometimes you post things that make me question that – and if you’re unwilling to give any credit or positivity at all to something that, to me, looks really amazing about black people, then I don’t know how to interpret it other than bias.
There’s at least two phenomena here with regards to birth statistics – first, unmarried black women are having far, far fewer babies (half or fewer) than 50 years ago, declining mostly steadily. It boggles my mind how anyone could see this as anything but a very positive reflection on black people in America. Second, married black women are having even fewer babies than 50 years ago. I don’t know whether this is good or bad, but it shouldn’t affect our perception of the first phenomenon. I don’t understand why the ratio or percentage could possibly be more important than the actual number of children negatively affected, which has been going down steadily for decades.
I’ts not dishonesty, it’s core to the point.
It doesn’t matter to you, because you are white and male, and you have never had to live under the oppression of racism an neither have I.
People who happen to be black do not have that same experience, and these statues have been communicated to us as being problematic and we need to be empathetic to that.
It doesn’t amount to a hill of beans if you are racist or not, but to show you the types of groups you are defending. Let my demonstrate what the people are like in the group that was organizing a lot of those protests and including Charlottesville, which was about protesting a statue BTW.
WARNING, extreme content.
They idealize Timothy Mcveigh
They idealize Dylann Roof
And they view these statues as being important to their white racist heritage.
It is either tone deaf or disingenuous to not admit this.
Again not relevant to my quotes that you deliberately claim say the opposite of what I write. I don’t care if you disagree with me. I don’t care what others think about statues. What I care about is when you continuously claim I’m saying the exact of opposite of what you just quoted. Then you post a bunch of irrelevant links? Frankly, your behavior is bizarre.
On a different subject, where is your rat avatar?