So why is it that people will spend hours, nay days worrying about the color scheme of their baby’s nursery and whether to give birth under water or in an elevator or up a tree - and no time or thought to understanding what the baby’s needs are going to be.
I cannot read the parenting message boards because there is so much rampant ignorance out there, and the terrifying thing is that these people have babies in their care!
Clue #1: Babies cry. It’s a fact of life. It’s also a signal that a parent needs to respond to them. Feed them, diaper them, soothe them - just pay some damn attention! You cannot spoil an infant - in fact, according to my sister the psychologist, children don’t develop adult-type logic until they’re around 4 years old, so “manipulation” by infants is absurd. I haven’t dealt with a toddler yet, so I won’t presume to say when or how “no” can be implemented, but it most certainly is not appropriate with an infant who can’t even crawl yet!
Clue #2: Your baby needs you. This thing about becoming a parent - well it ain’t just in order to collect cards on Mother’s Day! Your life is totally disrupted, your schedule kaput, your goals on hold - this is normal! I’m not buying this “I’ve got my baby on a schedule, my life’s perfect” crap either. Babies were not meant to be convenient; their needs change weekly, sometimes daily.
Clue #3: If you’d feed them when they’re hungry, they might not cry so much. Just because we can withhold food when bottle feeding doesn’t make it right to do so. How can people expect them to eat every 4 hours? In preparation for a growth spurt, a baby will nurse frequently over a period of days, to stimulate Mom’s milk. The baby’s body has no way of knowing its being bottle-fed. Therefore, a baby who is crying to be fed is following its instincts. How can people withhold food from them?
Clue #4: Yes, this business of parenting is incredibly difficult and often sucks. It’s okay to hate the role sometimes and that doesn’t mean you hate your child.
I’d carry on some more, but one of my twins just woke up.
While I don’t disagree with a lot of what you are saying, if you don’t think a 2 year old can be manipulative, you don’t know nearly as much about parenting as you think you do.
I have a 15-month old boy. Your whole life gets put on hold for a baby. Attachment parenting is where it’s at. Just give your baby what it needs. How could anyone think differently?
Well, if a 2-year-old is manipulative, it’s because they’ve learned it works.
For example:
In the grocery store.
“Mommy, I want a piece of candy. Buy me the candy.”
“No.”
2-year-old pitches a fit in the aisle, screaming and kicking. Mother wishes she could sink through the floor. Other customers are casting her sidelong glances.
Mother throws candy into the cart. The 2-year-old smiles.
Aw, I wouldn’t call a 2 (or 3) year old manipulative. Persistent, yes. And manipulative adults are indeed persistent.
The real manipulation starts when the parent pays attention to how the kid’s thought process works and then thinks and stays 2 steps ahead. That way the child’s “whims” will be prepared for, and will just happen to coincide with the parent’s plans for the day.
Lotsa folks don’t want to put this much effort into parenting, and prefer (though they’d deny it) to “dictate and discipline.”
Witholding food is sort of a trend… because people think “Oh my baby is getting FAT They must go on a diet!” When they aren’t fat, just normal baby pudgy (though some are leaner than others) so they withold food thinking that baby will lose weight. If you read baby books, they warn you not to do that because they need the nutrients to grow. But not everyone reads the books or thinks they know better so they do that.
And some people think ‘well they just have to wait and eat on MY schedule’, not what their tummy tells them.
This of course makes for a pretty fussy baby (of course they are crying! They’re hungry!)
I also find it amusing when people ask if the baby cries. Of course they cry. That’s their way of communicating, they can’t talk yet to tell you what’s wrong. Some are fussier than others (just how they are) but if you pay attention you can learn what each cry means and keep it to a minimum. Discounting for naturally fussy or colicy babies of course.
I think this depends on your definition of manipulate. They can certainly learn things do to in order to get what they want. My sister’s dog scratches at the pantry door, and cries and moans at the same time, in order to get you to give it a treat. It’s not sophisticated, but it’s annoying as hell and that dog is well spoiled.
Save your sanity and stay away from all parenting boards. Most people posting there are there not to help but because they want to brag about how they are the World’s Best Mother or Father. As a source of advice they’re largely useless.
IMO, stick to the real world (and one message board devoted to truth like this one) and you’ll be a better and happier parent.
It’s only going to get worse. All those babies that are having food withheld are also probably not getting enough fat, so their brains won’t develop and they’ll grow up stupid, have kids and start the whole damn cycle over again. :smack:
I’m glad I had a high fat diet. I may be big now, but at least I can think.
Yes, 2 or 3 year olds can be manipulative. My son is pretty sneaky about getting what he wants (well, he was. I’ve been able to see through him for a few months now and he is 3).
Example:
When he was two/two and a half he went through a phase where he wanted to eat off my plate. I said no and didn’t give in so he came up with more and more elaborate lures to get me up. First it was “mama, look!” and as soon as I would turn he’d grab for my fork. When I told him he had to stay in his seat he used the “I have to potty” excuse. As soon as I got up to take him to the bathroom he ran to my seat and climbed into my chair.
It was fun for him and a game, but that doesn’t mean that it was not manipulative. And I can tell you that he didn’t learn it by watching the rest of my family trick food away from one another and it’s not because because I am a lazy parent. He’s just smart. The parenting part comes in stopping the manipulation in a healthy, teaching way.
Back to the OP - parenting boards - blech. Most make me fear for the future. Especially the ones where the poster wants everyone else to let her know what to do about some very important, life-changing personal decision. Yuck.
Heh. Reminds me of the time that DangerGirl was just crawling–about 11 months old, I guess. She knew she wasn’t supposed to head over to the vertical blinds we have over the sliding glass door. They are fun to play with, but they are also prone to coming off the holders. So, she would veeeerrrry innocently toss a toy in the direction of the blinds, and crawl to it. Toss, crawl, toss, crawl, until–whoops! She’s at the blinds. Watching me all the while to make sure I’m not catching on to her little plan. It was pretty funny, but sure gave me a lesson in how early kids can start plotting to get their way.
I don’t go to any parenting boards. When I was first pregnant, I tried a few, and they were so horrific that I never went back. It’s depressing to realize how many dumb people there are raising innocent children…
I visit exactly 2 parenting boards. Both are run locally and one is run along the lines of this board though some topics are taboo, and swearing anywhere is frowned upon. It’s like… a tamer StraightDope that just happens to be about parenting and more about community, especially as most on that board are from one city.
The second is similar, and much the same goes on there… except it’s a lot more controversial. See it was made by the people who were tossed from the first board for being too… exhuberant about certain taboo topics. I’m a member of both
Otherwise I agree, the parenting boards can be interesting to say the least. The first one at least has experts on board to give tips about feeding, care, safety etc. The second is a little more interesting to read.
I didn’t mean to imply any knowledge of toddlers, as my experience only runs through age 3 months thus far; I’m not at all sure how we’re going to handle discipline once that’s genuinely an issue. It sounds like I’m going to have quite a lot on my hands as they start to locomote, if my children are anywhere near as cunning as some of yours!
The posters I was thinking of were the ones complaining that their infants are too demanding. “My baby is five days old, and it wants to be held all the time and eats every couple of hours, and cries at nighttime diaper changes”. No shit, Sherlock! Those are not discipline issues.
Jpeg - isn’t it shocking that “attachment parenting” is considered optional? Not that I do it perfectly all the time or anything, but I kind of thought that’s (i.e. responding) what parenting IS.
What I meant to say re: logic is that there’s really no reasoning with them until they hit about age 4. My understanding from Sis is that a lot of toddler abuse comes about because parents try to reason with 2-yr-olds and it just doesn’t work. And then people lose it.
Oh, and you’ll love this - my cousin has her month-old daughter on formula already (against her pediatrician’s recommendation) because it helps her sleep four to six hours. And her mother is a nurse!
Well there is www.linkingparents.com and www.thinkingparents.ca the former being the first one I described, the latter the second. I like them both for various reasons but the people there are (reasonably) sane
Shit, I meant to say cereal, it’s cereal she has her daughter on. At four weeks!
I can’t point the formula finger b/c I’m using it myself, breastfeeding just didn’t work out for me and the twins, although I did do some in the beginning. I regret it, but there it is.
Thanks for the links! I bet you’d also like Brain, Child magazine.
