DeniseV said:
If you had watched the last Eco-Challenge (just to pull an example I saw recently), you would have seen it. One of the New Zealand team members had subtitles going. They (the subtitles) were really annoying. I kept shouting at the TV, “She’s speaking English, damn it! I don’t need subtitles!”
Suprisingly, the TV didn’t listen.
Everyone - Can I reply to this post please? It is, afterall, addressed to me.
(joking)
I am a complicated person, so complicated that I can’t really explain myself. (I am not unique though, everyone is complicated, so complicated they can’t explain all their behaviour)
I don’t actually hate Americans. (In the recent post I actually mentioned that I wanted USA to get through, even win the world cup, in hindsight I still do - It is not their fault afterall that a few fans take it too far)
I generalize a lot because it is popular to do so. I know it’s wrong, but all too often I see “you brits” being uttered, so I do the same back just to fit in.
Perhaps some of my anti-Americanism (and I am not totaly anti-American, I am more pro-American than anti, but there is some anti in there) is due to the fact that in general (and generals are not completely invalid. it annoys me when people dismiss generalizations so easily, when generalizations are often useful and valid) Americans are more pretentious, louder, more shoot-first-ask-questions-later. And the behaviour of your govornment (almost always seeming immature, ill-thought out, over-egotistical). non-Americans see your country as a gas-guzzling immature giant.
We (non-americans) sometimes (or perhaps too often) forget that you guys (generally) have good points too - you are generally a lot friendlier than most other country’s citizens, you are more generous, you are good entertainers, you are prosperous (if a little wasteful). There is probably more to mention.
And since you asked - I was annoyed by the behaviour - since USA has got quite far in the world cup, and by perhaps more obnoxious people than the ‘general population’ - that USA is the best team there has ever been in soccer and that you are definately going to win the world cup.
ANd - by your genralizaton - that if I express annoyance at something related to AMerica I am somehow implying that I hate the whole country and everything about it.
On the whole, I like America, why do you think I talk about it so much?
Obsessed is more like it.
lobley said
Whatever. Generalizations are NEVERuseful and valid.
Hee hee.
That (by which I mean your post) was (as in, after the fact) a (since there was only one) very (as opposed to quite) reasonable (as in, displaying more reason than some of your earlier posts) post (by which I mean that message), lobley (and I’m sure your post is no more representative of all Manxmen that anti-Americanism is of all Manxmen).
(sorry)
If you think it’s wrong, why would you do it? To “fit in” with whom?
Do you enjoy the “you brits” stereotypes that paint your countrymen (and women) as humorless, frigid, pretentious whiners or, in the alternative, living-off-the-dole soccer thugs?
Those “generalizations” are just as “valid” as yours, but you don’t see people around here posting them, because they’re not true, they’re insulting to the many British posters who hang out here, and they’re rude.
So maybe to your American generalizations you should add “generally having enough personal intergrity to refrain from bashing other countries, if they know and admit that doing so is wrong.”
And allow me to clarify: I know some Americans bash other countries; around here we’re quick to do it if we perceive our country to be attacked first, and sometimes it’s done without provocation.
But I’ve never seen anyone else (American or otherwise) admit “yeah, it’s wrong and I shouldn’t do it” and then attempt to defend his/her behavior anyway.
Some of those British generalizations are often true. A brit is more likely to have those traits than an American.
I would ONLY get offended if someone called me whiney, pretentious etc… I would not [as a lot of pople in the SDMB do] get annoyed if someone said it as a generalization of brits without refering to me. I never refer to anyone in particular when I generalize, that’s why it’s a generalization. I was not, for instance, offended by your generalizations, even if you did mean them (which I don’t think you did)
And, anyway, if you don’y generalize, why do you even have that list of generalizations in your head. you do generalize, you all generalize, you are all so quick to argue against generalizations, yet I KNOW deep down you do it very quickly and without hesitation. Don’t lie about it, I KNOW you’ve already generalized me as a whiney brit.
The difference between me and you anti-generalizers is that I don’t hide my generalizations.
I also recognise that generalization doesn’t mean ALL, it means as a majority. I KNOW that there are vast numbers of people inside any generalized country to which the generalizations don’t apply. EVERYONE seems to forget that about my generalizations.
Haven’t been to an American car showroom lately, have ya?
But seriously, we have to take this from the country that took a perfectly good 1956 Plymouth and turned it into the Chrysler Royal?
And of the USA or Oz, in which country can you buy a big rear-drive Ford LTD? I’ll give you a hint; it ain’t the USA.
Zap!
Who’s a bit jealous, actually.
I am going to risk putting my heart on my sleeve here a bit, and see how it goes.
In general, this anti-American sentiment hurts my feelings. Chances are that I am being thin skinned, but allow me to share my personal experiences here (as I believe that the OP invited).
Some years back, I was privileged to be able to travel through Europe. I was with a group of people and, among us, we had Spanish, French and a smattering of German in our language bank. We did our very best to behave as the self-invited guests that we were. Speaking the local language whenever possible, not dressing is obviously American clothing, learning as much as possible about local norms before arriving. And still, there was a lot of contempt.
So fine, it is fair enough if the same shop keeper has dealt with the “ugly American” over and over and over for the past who knows how many years that some basic assumptions will be made when a group of them walk in. That said, at some point it should be obvious that this group is different. I did not experience this changing anything.
In general, I think that we (Americans) are a little insecure about our culture. We do not really have the centuries or millennia of cultural continuity behind us that many other cultures on the planet do. In some ways, I see our culture as a newborn and fragile thing. As such, we get a little protective when we feel that it is attacked.
So, I guess what I would suggest is this: If folks that are not Americans want to dislike our foreign policies (and man is there a lot of fodder for attack there!) that is well and good. But please lay off of the cultural items.
Really, we are doing the very best that we can. Think of an adolescent that was raised by wolves and you may get the idea. There has been no older and wiser heads to guide us at all, and in general I think that we are turning out pretty well. We just need to mature and mellow a bit with age.
Tons of us (Americans) are just as frustrated by the actions of our government as you are. Trust me.
Binarydrone- Hear, hear! I agree with your sentiments completely. Thank you for expressing it in such a clear and compelling fashion.
lobely- I really didn’t mean to offend or bother you with this thread; I just sincerely wanted to know why you seemed to dislike Americans so much. You make some good points, and having travelled in Europe and watched some of my countrymen, I can tell you truthfully I have been a bit embarassed by some of their behavior. But, getting back to what Binarydrone said, yeah- we’re a little unpolished at times. Some of it may stem from the fact that we are pretty isolated as a culture- we don’t have to deal with non-Americans as often or extensively in our daily lives as many British have to deal with non-British, or French with non-French, etc. Perhaps this has made us a bit thick when it comes to being respectful tourists. (Is there such a thing?) Anyway, thank you for answering my question. I sorta understand about your generalizations argument- we all generalize. We all try not to, but we’re all human. Oh, and about US politics and gov’t.- what OpalCat said.
ahem…Attention Aussie Dopers:
The International Exchange of Annoying Shit From Somewhere Else™ stand thus:
You guys can have back the following items: Yahoo Serious, the Quantas Koala, Ugg Boots, the word ‘barbie’, Foster’s beer, and Paul Hogan. (The US regretfully acknowledges our embarassing fascination with this fellow; we ask respectfully that you take him back from us so that we may save ourselves from ourselves.)
In return, the US will accept: golfing trousers, inordinately large automobiles, any and all unfortunate alcoholic beverages we may have inflicted upon you, Jerry Springer (alas!), and any individual whose pants are deemed a safety hazard in high winds.
We are keeping Steve Irwin and Geoffrey Rush. In return, you must keep Russel Crowe, although his actual nationality is in some dispute over here. Feel free to dump him straight into the Gulf along with Ron Howard.
On a more personal note, can I use the word ‘bloke’? You may select any Americansim you want in return. ‘Bloke’ just sounds cool. It’s somehow more acoustically pleasing to say ‘that bloke’ instead of ‘that guy’. To me, anyway. I also enjoy ‘bum’, although I suppose we must work out a deal with the British as well. Which brings me to:
British Dopers! Please take back that ‘Naked Chef’ guy. We’ll take back anything you want, such is the shame and horror emanating from this bloke. (!) (But can we work out some sort of time-share for Eddie Izzard?) 
Jamie Oliver is not welcome here.
I just want to make some comments from a slightly different perspective. I am a Brit by birth and will stand up for my fellow country persons when they are being unfairly criticised by people from other countries.
However, I have been living in the U.S.A for a number of years now, as well as having travelled to many other foreign countries. There are good and bad in all of the places I have been to. Before coming here and before visiting the other countries, I had preconceived ideas about the people of those countries. We all do that, we generalize whether consciously or not. “Australians are unrefined”, “Americans are loud and uncultured”.(I no longer subscribe to these thoughts).
No matter what my thoughts were before visiting other countries and the U.S., I found that they were ALWAYS wrong. Even the idea that the Brits were reserved, cultured and the best people in the world I have sadly found to be a generalization that does not apply. The number of times I have been out with my American friends and come across Brits behaving like uneducated idiots has made me embarrassed to admit that I am British.
What am I rambling on about here ? When I meet the people from another country, in their own country, I always find the majority of them to be friendly, generous and nothing like their stereotypes. I also meet assholes. There are good and bad everywhere. Most of them are good.
I have come to appreciate the Americans. They really are not that different from people from any other country. Except that none of them know where any of those other countries are.
Um… I thought ol’ Jerry came from the UK originally?
LOBLEY –
I would respectfully suggest that that’s just you. Many people of many countries (not just the U.S.) take pride in their citizenship and identify as citizens of a given country, and they are offended, from mildly to deeply, to have their countrymen “bashed” by generalizing morons. Your rationale seems to be the same as that of a woman who would say to a man “God, men are pigs. Of course, I don’t mean you.” It should be obvious why the offense is not entirely removed.
I think you need to look up the term “generalize.” (Feel free to spell in “generalise.”) If I conclude anything regarding you personally, on the basis of your own personal posts, I have not “generalized” anything.
Why not? If they make you look like an ass and offend people, why not keep them to yourself? Really, no one will mind.
This whole “cultural refund” idea is interesting, but far more complicated than it seems. For example, one might think to blame Americans for the TV show Baywatch, because it was made by Americans in America. Yet people often overlook the fac that no one in American ever watches it. It’d have been cancelled ages ago, except for its success in the British and European market.
Which of course brings up the unfortunate subject of David Hasslehoff. Now, as Americans, we accept responsibility for putting him in more than one television show. But for the love of all that is good and decent, we never let him sing. Germany, I’m looking at you, here.
Clearly, the blame aportionment here is not as cut and dried as we’d like to think.
Are fucking not. Bastard.
You’re confusing what is available with what is popular. America is, no matter how you wriggle, jump and try to distract us, the home of the Big Car. And as for jealousy…
You Americans always take criticism as jealousy. You are, for the most part,dreaming. Get on it, get off it, get over it.
Fosters? What the fuck is that? Oh, I remember, some piss sold down south to Mexicans who know no better.
Nope. Never drink your stuff except when I’m in the US and have no option.
Because you are all a bunch of pussies. If you were Real Blokes, you wouldn’t have been injured or killed.
[I am digging myself a hole so deep here… *Why* did I start this? :eek: ]
Am I to assume that Lobley has gotten all his information about us Damned Yankees from TV shows and movies?
Excuse me, but I couldn’t stay out of this thread forever, not having been born in England, raised in America, and self-identifying as both.
I have few requests as far as the exchange goes:
First, Americans, will you please give up the idea that Lipton makes anything resembling hot tea, and provide drinkable stuff in offices, restaurants, etc.? I’m tired of having to travel with a personal stash of Red Rose.
Second, British, please continue the export of British televions programs including but not limited to Junkyard Wars, As Time Goes By, Waiting for God (if it’s still being produced) and anything Monty Python or containing Judy Dench.
British and Australians, if some kind soul could see fit to get a set of change ringing bells to Pittsburgh, I’ll do everything I can to convert the heathens, er, encourage the practice. The reason I include the Australians in this is the set of bells I learned to ring on in Honolulu were donated by an eccentric Australian. Yes, damn it, it is music!
lobley, I knew I owed someone an apology for those two women on my bus the other night. I suppose it’s you. Yes, they were loud, ignorant obnoxious, and no, they couldn’t understand why everyone in the world isn’t just like them. I, for one, am very grateful I’m not. You have my permission to beat me or worse if I ever become like them! Please accept my sincere apologies. It took everything I had not to say something to them.
By the way, how does Kevin Sorbo factor into the exchange, and has anyone spoken to the Irish about keeping Pierce Brosnan?
CJ