Witness this delightful exchange in the GD thread So Sue Us!( Not happy we shot up your wedding party? Tell it to the judge…)
The facts aren’t all in yet about what exactly happened in this incident, but there’s no shortage of fucking assholes prepared to claim that even if the worst is true, it’s still the victim’s fault.
“Trying to win a war here”? A war against who exactly? Random brown-skinned people?
What a fucking jerkoff.
I thought we were trying to help build a democratic society and I fail to see how blasting the shit out of anything that might be threatening, without any regard for civilian lives, helps that.
As I reference in that post - such actions are against the Geneva Convention as well as being stupid politics. Dammit - its not as if the only 2 options, if you suspect bad guys are in a village, is lay out the red carpet or flatten the whole village.
But it seems to be the safe option, leaving the impression that better a hundred foreigners die than one occupation soldier, flying an armoured helicopter, risks getting a scratch. An impression fostered by the pitted asshole here.
Dear god - if we’re the good guys we’d better damn well start acting like it.
Aside from the immediate ethical issue, consider it tactically. Winnin’ those hearts and minds, are we? All that remains now is for us to burn down some mosques and photograph our soldiers peeing on the Koran.
I agree with the OP. Lonesome Polecat sounds like a real gung-ho asshole. Little wonder he’s so lonesome.
brought a little chuckle, tthat last part,
then I realized:it’s 3 to 1 they’ve already been there, done that, filmed it too…
(the peeing part)
Please note:any asshole who wants a cite for the peeing on the koran, get your own fucking cite…
Good rant, but I have one quibble–there’s a disturbing tendency for the ostensibly liberal folks here to drag race in an attempt to make the situation even more negative, as if that were possible.
Iraqis are not “brown-skinned people”–they’re white. Caucasians, well except for the black minority, but just look at the photos. Sure, they’re a different ethnic group (well, several ethnic groups), they speak Arabic, they’re Moslem, but the “random brown-skinned people” comment frankly sounds kind of racist to me. Inadvertently, of course, but still. . .
That will be in the next disc of digital pictures.
The term “brown-skinned people” isn’t one that I would’ve ever dreamt of using until recently. It’s not a term of my invention, and I used it in deliberate reference to what this asshole said:
Ah, I see. Yeah, you gotta admire the sheer ballsiness of Bush’s “if you oppose the war, you’re a RACIST!” tactic.
I’m just askin’, so don’t jump my shit. I want to know how the helicopter is supposed to respond to being fired upon. I’m talking “rules of engagement” here. Do you shoot to defend yourself or do you fly away and have ground forces investigate? If they were being fired upon, (whether accidentally or intentionally), I can’t imagine them having any otherresponse than to return fire. But I’ve never been a chopper pilot in a war zone, so…
It is the sheer jaw-dropping nature of his pronounciamentos that never ceases to floor me…
It causes one to puzzle over the (loosely termed) thought processes at work…
Does anyone in here have children, parents, siblings, or life partners serving in Iraq? If so, I would be interested in hearing your views on how you would like your loved ones to react upon hearing live fire.
Y’know, that’s a good question.
A few months ago the CinC landed on an aircraft carrier, said “mission accomplished”. Now if the CinC says “mission accomplished”, that means the war is over, right? So if the war is over, we’re not in…what, a peacekeeping mode? Mop up? If we’re no longer at war, I would say that a reaction to live fire - if not actually fired upon - should be, perhaps, investigation, as opposed to shooting back.
Unless the mission hasn’t actually been accomplished and we’re still at war, of course.
Okay, thanks, and yours is what — child, parent, spouse, life partner, sister, brother…?
Oh, right! Only those with family in what may or may not be a war zone are allowed an opinion. Sorry about that!
I’m sorry, too. I didn’t realize that I couldn’t ask for the opinions of people other than you. It’s just that, since you quoted the question and called it “good” and everything, I thought you might actually have read it.
Unfortunately liberal all the opinions you will be able to collect in this forum will be from soldier’s family. It’s a pity there isn’t, to my kowledge, any irakis in these boards. You could then listen to their opinion about how should soldier respond in a civilian area and you will, hopefully, be able to form your own opinion.
My opinion, and no I don’t have relatives fighting in irak, is that the latest incident shows how little you value the life of those who don’t carry an american passport.
I don’t have family in Iraq either, but if I were to imagine: if my family were Iraqis, I would advise them to be extremely careful and not to fire off any machine guns, and if they were American I would advise them to be extremely vigilant and to presume that all live fire is unfriendly. Wouldn’t you?
Okay, it looks like those of us without family overseas are invited to answer this question, so my answer:
For the love of God, no. And I mean that without blasphemy.
Thing is, I know, from history, that not all gunfire in the region is from insurgents. I know that people fire guns off in celebrations.
That means I know that any relative overseas who responded with violence to such gunfire would risk massacring innocent human beings. Would risk gunning down children.
How could I possibly advise my relatives to risk that?
No. I would not advise them to presume that all live fire is unfriendly. I would beg them to rethink their commitment to this military, to reconsider what it means to participate in modern warfare, and to look into becoming a conscientious objector.
If my country were invaded and if my own cousins risked being gunned down by the occupying army, that’s what I’d want the occupier’s family to tell them. How can I do less?
Daniel
You almost lost me there, Daniel. I thought you were headed toward a Dukakis answer along the lines of, “I would advise my son to take the time to evaluate the circumstance and consider only the pertinent facts when he encounters live fire”. Instead, you would advise him to desert or try to get out by conscientious objection, and I can respect that of a parent or lover. But due respect, it doesn’t really answer the question. He can’t exactly run to the Lieutenant when he hears gunfire and refuse to fight because he’d only end up in prison. So what is your immediate tactical, rather than long term strategic, advice to him?