I’ve been reading threads in various forums today, and I’ve noticed a couple of things. About the potential war on Iraq, in case you thought it was about some controversial IMHO thread about which way to wipe your ass after a good shit.
I see people calling US military personnel murderers, I see pro-war debaters labeled “hawks” and “warmongerers”.
Conversely, I see anti-war protesters being called “supporters of Saddam”, who would rather see the West nuked by a dictator than intervene now.
Too many threads to fucking link to, I tell ya. What’s wrong with us?
This is the Straight Dope, not some airheaded teenager message board where nonfactual flames are the norm. We used to be able to agree to disagree, and bring forth our opinions in a civilised manner, with respect for the opposing party.
Yes, Iraq is a hot button issue for all of us, on either side of the equation. It’s got the entire world in its grip. But rather than lowering ourselves to the level of drooling morons, casting accusations of murder or cowardice left and right, I’d like to think this message board is a safe haven from complete fucking morons.
…agreed. The “temperature” level seemed to jump a couple of degrees in the last day or so, I think Blix’s statement and the protests have set a few people off. I can understand it, but there is no excuse for it.
Your user name gives the impression that fire can be cold. Don’t give me any crap that a fire is cold compared to the sun or some such bullshit; fire gives off heat, not cold. I don’t think any of us wants to see kids burn themselves.
Coldy, can you do something about this jjimm guy? He’s always showing up in the same threads as me and saying he agrees with me! It’s because I’M ALWAYS RIGHT!
Lib, I know what you’re referring to, but: calling US military “murderers” is akin to calling all lawyers “ambulance chasers”. You take one aspect of a profession, blow it up, and apply it to the group as a whole. “We” saw it. We debated it, too. It’s a tough call to make, and it certainly was very, very inflammatory to call -in this case- the USAF “murderers”. But if we’re going to allow people to call pro-choice advocates “murderers”, then we must allow this as well, tasteless as it may be.
Which is why the mod hat is OFF. Just because it doesn’t directly break a rule, doesn’t mean I have to like it. See?
Too many people pretending the whole issue has the moral depth of a Saturday morning western. They’ll be handing out white and black hats next.
Refusal to accept and misrepresentaion of the opposing side’s view are tactics employed by both sides. I call that wilfull ignorance and refer to the big red banner on this web page.
Look, I’m with you. But this is nothing. It’s going to get worse, probably much worse. Just because this is mostly an intelligent board doesn’t mean we’re better.
I’m with you on this, Coldy. It’s not just on these boards, either. This morning at work, I was subjected to the “community service” portion of a local radio station’s air time. They had a representative from the local “Veterans for Peace” on. He proceeds to bash the Bush administration for distorting facts and figures, then does the same thing himself! If that wasn’t bad enough, he posits no alternatives to war! If you’re against war, I can respect that, but have an alternative available, instead of just saying, “Well all I know is that war is bad!” No shit, Sherlock, but so are dictators! An alternative to war would be fantastic, not only because it would mean an end to war, but then we could do something about the dictators in every country, not just a select few!
are they not murderers because murder by defintion is the unlawful killing of another human being, or are they not murderes because we wouldn’t want to make them feel guilty for killing thousands of people with the sanction of the US government?
Iraq is a tough issue for all of us. Why? Because human life hangs in the balance and we happen to be somewhat short on reliable facts. Generally, the folks hanging out at the SDMB are pretty respectful of one another (as compared to other MB-based communities online). We discuss, debate and reason with one another, citing reliable facts along the way to support our individual points of view.
In the case of Iraq, however, the truth is being deliberately obscured. With regard to many of the issues surrounding the Iraq situation, it’s really tough to cite verifiable facts. The situation is volitile enough to potentially cause World War III, so we have to formulate opinions on it, even in the absence of many relevant facts.
Personally, I’m still on the fence concerning the “Should we go to war?” issue. Until Colin Powell gave his speech, I was dead-set against invading Iraq. There was a big protest here in NYC yesterday, and the emotional side of me really wanted to march against the war. However, I decided against it. Why? Because I realized that I don’t have all the facts. I’m not a weapons inspector, so I don’t know whether or not the things that have been found in Iraq constitute proof that Saddam Hussein is trying to rebuild his arsenal or acquire WMDs to be used against the U.S. Based on the information I have (and that which I can readily get), I can’t tell for certain if France and Germany are motivated by moral factors, their self-interest, economics, a combination of those things, or other things that I just don’t grok from where I’m sitting. I can’t get inside G.W.'s head, so I can’t tell what’s motivating him to deal with Iraq so harshly when it appears that North Korea is a more immediate threat.
I guess this is a long way of saying that we need to be ultra-careful when we have debates on the war issue. We need to realize that all of us have formulated opinions based on incomplete and possibly inaccurate facts. As we face off in GD, IMHO, the Pit and the other forums, we should keep in mind the following:
Many of the facts that both we and our debate opponents take as givens are questionable.
In the absence of facts, emotions take over.
In such a situation, it’s almost impossible to be definitively “right” or “wrong,” so we need to have respect for one another and for our individual views.
I can understand Coldfire’s frustration. It’s tough to watch such a fine community basically have a meltdown over such a tough issue, especially considering the successes we’ve had in the past. I guess the best advice I can offer is that everyone be extra considerate of one’s debate opponent and his/her opinions before hitting that “submit reply” button. No one should be so quick to judge, considering the lack of verifiable information in general.
