Long ass comic book thread

Cafe Society
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Instead of asking a bunch of comic superhero threads I thought I’d consolidate my questions/ Theories in one.

I was watching my 2nd season JLU DVDs this weekend and in the episode where Supergirl, Green Lanternand Green Arrow get sent into the future to help the Legion of Superheroes, Green Lantern gets captured and mind controlled. When Green Arrow asks Brainiac 5 why he saved Supergirl first instead of GL (thus letting GL be captured) he comments “He’s the most powerful.”

Is this just Green Arrow’s opinion? I know that JLU the animated series isn’t really “canon” but still…GL is more powerful than Supergirl? She’s basically Superman only she doesn’t have a penis. She has all of the same powers which include nearly limitless strength, invulnerability to nearly everything but magic and krytonite, superspeed, heat vision, etc. The lantern has some nifty powers, but could he even possibly have a chance against Superman/girl?

Characters that deserved more attention:

Keeping the JLU anmimated series in mind, the writing team did a good job of bringing some lesser known characters to light for younger generations. After all, I had little knowledge of Vigilante, Shining Knightor Vixen. Even the Question, who with Black Canaryand Huntress had their own little story arcs in the series. I would have loved to see another season or two to flesh these characters out more. Especially Vigilante…he seemed really cool to me.

Does the Flash have superstrength? I don’t recall that he does. But in an epsiode where the Justice League takes on Gorilla Grodd, Flash asks the ape policman chasing Grodd how much he weighs. The ape says something like 400 of your pounds. Flash then picks him up and runs away to safety as they are being overwhelmed by foes. 400 lbs? I don’t know about you but even if I had superspeed I couldn’t lift 400 pounds! (admittedly I’m not particularly strong, but even really strong guys I know can’t just pick up something that weighs 400 lbs!)

The obligatory VS part:

Darksiedwas a major character in the animated JLU. I believe Thanos from Marvel was inspired by him (stop me if I’m wrong). So, who would win in a fight against Thanos and Darksied? My money is on Thanos, but I think Darksied would take a chunk of him.

I’ve seen a few Superman vs Thorthreads in my day. But could Thor beat Captain Marvel (DC version).Cap is powered by the Gods, so they may be evenly matched.

Batmancan beat anyone, except maybe Chuck Norris. :). From what I understand he had plans to defeat all of the JL in the comic books if he had to. But how would Bats fare against the Avengers?Just use the somewhat classic team Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man, etc. Could Batman even stand a chance? ( to be honest he seems smart enought to…I ask this only in morbid interest of the opinions of the rest of ya’ll.)

Over or Underused villains:

Doctor Doom is arguably one of Comics greatest villains. He’s fought heroes from Marvel and DC. I would say Doom is overused but not as much as Galactus. there was a time in the 80s where I think he fought every character Marvel had ever made. When suprman was rebooted they changed Luthor from a mad scientist into a super genius corparate bad guy…which I liked. But there are villains which were more interesting but didn’t seem to make the cut.

Back in the 70’s when Nova first made the scene his arch foe was the Sphinx. The Sphinx was pretty much all powerful and haunted in a way by his own power. After Nova’s first series ended he made appearances in Fantastic Four and other titles. Still, none of them captured the character right IMO. He seemed threatening in Nova, but just run of the mill afterward. Also noted, Nova had fights with a winged villain called Condor and his henchman Powerhouse and Diamondhead. They seemed threatening at the time. But I was not interested in the backstory they gave Powerhouse later after the series ended and I’m not sure what happened to Diamondhead.

The Joker is probably overused…merely bcause he has no powers. How can he evne threaten anyone, even Batman? If Bats can plan a way to take down the likes ofd Superman, GL or Captain Atom, how can he not have plans to keep the Joker in check? Just asking…the superhero world would be less amusing without the Joker. :slight_smile:

Back in the 70s I read Machine Man’soriginal series. MM fought another robot from space called Ten-For (only Kirby could make a character called **Ten-For **and actually make him seem a bit scary). I thought he had a lot of potential. I could be wrong, but I don’t think Ten-For has mad an appearance sine MM destroyed him. Jeez, Ultron comes back again and again but not Ten-For?

This has bugged me a lot…

…and I’ll admit its because I’m a big fan of The Thing as a character. In the old days…the really old days for some of us…when comics where 25 cents or less…Ben Grim was considered one of the strongest and hardest to hurt heroes in the MU. I read an interview a long time ago from Stan Lee about his first battle with the Hulk. Lee said (I’m paraphrasing) that the Hulk was stronger but the Thing was a more skilled fighter. Thus, the Hulk always had the upper hand in their fights. Still, The Thing was like an intelligent Hulk, and held his own, only losing mostly because the Hulk doesn’t tire, at least not as quickly as the thing. (or another plot device)

but nowadays there are characters that are supposed to be as strong or even stronger than the Thing. I won’t even include Thor or Gladiator, since Thor should probably be the mightiest as he is a “God” (and that includes Hercules) and Gladiator has been written to have ridiculous power only by believing he has it. But Colossus? Sasquatch? Iron fucking Man? (Hulk fans may hate it, but I again bring up the fact that Iron Manknocked the Hulk out with one ounch once). Why is the Thing getting the short shrift? The fan boy in me feels sad about it. After all, ione of the few perks about looking like a pile of orange rocks would be knowing I’m at least in the top 2 or 3 of strongest guys in the world.

**Comic Books…better or worse: **

I went to a local com ic shop this weekend, looking to see how much it would cost to buy some of my childhood/teen memories back. Before my great comic book collection was destroyed by a flood whilst I was in the Middle East I had some great collections. I was never a big DC comic buyer, but I had a lot of old silver age Superman and Batman comics…even Aquaman. I had Fantastic Four comics starting at issue 20. I owned every single issue of The Eternals, Rom the Spaceknight, Devil Dinosuarand Machine Man. I had the first issue of Luke Cage Hero for Hirethat my mother got me as a gift in 1979. And many more old comics. Hell, I thought Nova in his original series was one of the coolest new heroes evah!

But this local shop, they didn’t seem to have a lot of older comics like that. In fact it seemed the oldest ones they had on display were from the early nineties. Granted, the clerk asked if there was anything I needed help with, making me think he might have been able to produce even older stuff if I had asked, but it was depressing to me. I’d love to be able read some of the comics from the old days…before the crossover/ Secret War/ Crisisn Infinte Earth stuff started. You know, before stories were driven by how many different titles you can stretch them out in and they all had to have Wolverine in them.

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I think it could be argued that GL is more powerful than Supergirl. As I understand it, his power is limited only by his will power, and his ring can now affect yellow.

IMO, Darkseid is more powerful than Thanos. I don’t think Thanos can do anything like Darkseid’s Omega beams and Darkseid always struck me as more intelligent.

I’m not aware of any version of the Flash that has super-strength.

Batman might beat the Avengers if he is prepared (a meme I’m getting tired of), but his ass is grass the first time he goes up against Iron Man or Thor; he simply doesn’t have that kind of power. He might be able to out-think Giant-Man and the Wasp, and I think he could probably beat Captain America in a lengthy battle, but he’s going to be feeling a lot of pain.

Not sure who would win a battle between Thor and Capt. Marvel. I guess it comes down to who is writing the book.

I agree with you regarding the Thing. At one time, I think FF #55, v. 1, the Silver Surfer said his strength was nearly limitless. He gave the Surfer a pretty good solo battle in that book.
As I recall its ending, Reed Richards told the Surfer: “You look tired.”

Re: The Sphinx. I don’t agree with you, but then I was never that fond of Nova either.

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Whether or not he could take Cap would depend on which version of Cap we’re talking about. Cap has gotten progressively stronger recently (well, before his death and possible rebirth). And their fighting ability is something of a wash.

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But thats the question, isn’t it. Supergirl is supposed to be Superman only a female. (at least in the incarnation I speak of) She’s a kryptonian with the same powers afforded to her by earth’s yellow sun. Since superman is more powerful than Green Lantern, shouldn’t she be also. maybe physically weaker than the Big Blue Boy Scout by way of being female, but she should be nearly as powerful and as invulnerable as he is.

I agree. Thanos has displayed great power, even taking on Odin. But Darksied if nothing else has an attitude about him that makes him more of a formidable foe.

Nor I. Thats why I asked.

Bats would need to be perfect in his attack against the likes of Thor or Iron Man. One opening would mean the end of the fight for him. I can’t think of how he could even hurt Thor, and while he might use some techno-babble with Iron Man, it would have to be flawless. I think the Black Panther could give him a run for his bat-money also, but in the end Bats would probably beat him.
Not sure who would win a battle between Thor and Capt. Marvel. I guess it comes down to who is writing the book.

What people usually say is that the Thing is as strong as a calm Hulk. I cna’t argue with that. I think Ben could knock Hulk out if he took him by surprise. Its just that other “strong” guys seem to have eclipsed him in the MU that dismays me. Its only fanboy-ism, admittedly.

I’m not fond of Nova now, myself, but back in the original series I thought he was pretty cool.

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The Green Lantern ring is the most powerful weapon in the universe and regularly takes down Kryptonians. So yes, GL is more powerful (on a general scale) than Supergirl or Superman.

No super strength for the Flash though he can hit really hard by moving at relativistic velocities (how he manages to stick to the ground when running at those speeds is left as an exercise to the reader).

When you consider Darkseid versus Anyone you have to remember that Darkseid has the ability to kill anyone in the universe at will. So if you make them fight then the fight is already over. Usually he doesn’t resort to this because he likes breaking his enemies more and as a god he has all the time in the universe to do it with. Assuming Thanos isn’t vaporized by the Omega Effect the second someone says “Fight!” then Darkseid will hold up a handy Anti-Life Equation flashcard and Thanos’s free will is removed.

I’d give it to Thor; Billy is immature and not a particularly skilled fighter while Thor is Thor.

He beat them. Well, not Captain America but the writer was the writer of Marvel’s Avengers book so…

He’s still near the top; the only people who properly outrank him on the strength scale are gods, hulks, and Superman-analogues. Iron Man is weaker than him unless he’s wearing a suit of armor specifically designed to beat the hulk and even then it’s dubious and most of the rest are roughly around his level. And everyone respects Ben Grimm.

Every shop is different. Some of them have large back stock and others concentrate on just getting new stuff. Some specialize in older books and some just take whatever comes in with the collections.

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GL IS more powerful than Supergirl - arguably more powerful than Superman, especially in the DCAU, as opposed to the comics DCU.

Sure, take off his ring, and he’s just a guy (though John and Hal both have military training, so I wouldn’t count either of them out even without the ring, under a lot of circumstances), but with the ring, GLs can create anything they can imagine, fly in space unaided - including life support, and moving fast enough to get to the centre of the universe (Oa, the literal centre, rather than Earth’s being the figurative centre) in a reasonable time - protect the wearer from physical damage, poisoning (see: Sodam Yat), etc, etc, etc.

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In their few interactions, Batman has admitted he’d lose to Cap. Cap’s a specialist, he’s the World’s Greatest Fighter. (and leader.) If Cap doesn’t have his shield, Bats has a chance, but not a very good one. Soon as Cap has his shield, it’s over. (Maybe not in one shot, but effectively decided at that point.) Bats is not the best fighter in the DC Universe, by the way. I believe Richard Dragon is. He’s got enough skills that he makes up for it by cheating, but… Cap’s got enough of those to match him, as well.

Vigilante is one of those characters I like that gets short shrift, myself. Vixen has made a major comeback in comics just because of her popularity in JLU, though.

Wally has a little trick of carrying things around in his backdraft, using his speed to help lift things. Not sure how he did it, myself, but…

GL has the most powerful weapon in the universe. And that GL has a mind to use it. Supergirl may have the physical prowess, but not the mental and tactical equivalency.

Darkseid takes Thanos. It’s not even fair.

Thor vs Captain Marvel? Tricky. Depends, really, on the Thor we’re talking about… and what Captain Marvel’s Wisdom of Solomon has to say about it.

Batman against the classic Avengers lineup? He can take any three to four of them, but not Cap, and then the remaining ones will free the KOed ones and that’s it. That’s how the story goes, you know?

The Joker is pretty much the opposite of Batman, here. It’s not that he has a plan to beat anyone, it’s that he can terrify the hell out of anyone, without planning. (except, of course, one wheelchair bound woman.) Do not underestimate him. Ever. He will outmaneuver anyone. Even Lex. Because he thinks differently.

I liked the appearance the Sphinx made in New Warriors. Rather interesting storyline.

MM’s original series, being based on 2001, is a biiiiiiiit out of continuity. Havn’t seen Ten-For recently.

Ben’s pretty strong, but not the strongest anymore. But he is the toughest son of a gun in the Marvel Universe. And he’s got the biggest heart. (And he’s the wisest member of the Four, too.)

Oh, you want the good stuff?
You want the hard stuff? The pure stuff? Want it cheap? Five hundred pages for twenty bucks? No problem, mate. It’s in black and white, but heck, your mind can color it for you.
DC: Mid-50s to 1990s. Including a lot of 60s Superman, Flash, GL…

Marvel:

Spidey from Amazing 15 till 1980. Nova’s complete first run. Avengers till 80. The entire Defenders, more or less. Classic Doctor Strange. The complete Savage She-Hulk, the complete Ms. Marvel.
Power Man. Iron Fist. Power Man AND Iron Fist. Four volumes of that, so far.

Enjoy, mate!

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If you think this is strange, Impulse (back in his skinny little twig-boy days) was shown to also carry gorillas bigger than he was. It seems to be a standard speedster ability. Otherwise, they couldn’t throw one person over each shoulder and run, like they often do.

They don’t officially have super-strength, but they’re written as though they do.

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Re: Thing

Marvel Directory says he can lift or press 85 tons. Zeus can lift 90, Wonder Man 95, and sp,e of the true heavyhitters, at 100+, are Thor,Juggernaut, Abomination, Beta Ray Bill, Nimrod, Hulk, Odin, Hercules, Absorbing Man, Gladiator, Mephisto, Silver Surfer, Apocalypse, Loki, Thanos, and Onslaught.

Most of these are either gods or cosmic level beings.

It also says Iron Man, War Machine, and Magneto can lift over a hundred tons, but I feel those are cheats, especially with Mags. He can lift 100+ tons with his magnetic powers, sure, but it has to be metallic and someone like Invisible Woman can probably do the same thing with her force fields.

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The problem there is that it sounds like he’s mainly looking for bronze age material and the Showcase volumes have a big hole in them regarding that period thanks to DC’s overly generous freelancer contracts at the time. Material from about 1973 to around 1990 is prohibitively expensive for DC to reprint unless they can renegotiate with everyone involved (that Booster Gold Showcase volume) or sell obscene quantities of it (anything that Alan Moore did); sometimes it’s possible but more often than not it doesn’t work out.

I’m still waiting for that Suicide Squad volume and more Jonah Hex…

And this is a much better deal for finding those lost and hidden gems and Marvel has done a better job of bringing out everything. Okay, admittedly by “everything” I mean the superhero books but about the only two superhero books from pre-1975 that have not been collected in those volumes at this point are the Submariner who is getting his own volumes soon after years of being delayed (and the first Golden Age essential for him, too!) and Nick Fury. They’ve really done a great job in bringing out entire fan favorite runs on material from the 1970’s.

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Well, Namor does show up in the collected Super Villain Team-Up.
and I soooooooo want the 60s Nick Fury Most Awesome Man Alive stuff. You know, where he drives his motorcycle through the side of a building while it explodes.
Yeah, there’s a bronze age hole for DC, but there’s some good stuff anyhow. Specifically, the classic Flash and GL. And Atom. The Superman is pretty Super-Dickery, but the Batman is pretty good.

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The whole who would beat who question is a black hole. The answer on any given day is based ona bunch of factors, many of them wholly extrinsic to the story in question – such as, who’s writing the title that month, where the characters may need to be positioned for ongoing/upcoming crossovers, and who’s more popular.

As for back issue stock, as noted above, it’s quite variable by store. In general, it’s not a very valuable part of an LCS revenue these days, given eBay and the many internet sites that sell old comics. Conventions (the small ones that take place every few months in most metro areas) are a better shot for that stuff, as they’re often staffed by guys who used to do a lot of back-issue business before the internet made it less profitable and are willing to unload their stock at a good price.

One comic in particular you might be on the look out for is Marvel Two-In-One Ann. 7 (1982). You’d enjoy it.

–Cliffy