[long] Fucking QUIT IT ALREADY!

The BBQ Pit
1

I’m too polite to talk about this to people face to face, but it’s easy for y’all to go to the next thread.

Who the hell has it out for me and my family and would they just give us a fucking break?

T-minus 4 years: Oh look, we’re having twins. (and the Corvette transmission dies)

T-minus 3.5 years: Ok Look, the kids are five weeks premature and all that that implies. We get to buy two of everything and get to listen to all the folks that say ‘Boy, I sure couldn’t handle twins!’ No shit. Like we have a choice.

T-minus who knows, it’s ongoing: I’m the nearest family member to my 90+ year old grandfather. Every eight months or so, I get to do the 200 mile round trip to see him at the hospital and ferry him home everytime one of his two dozen medications gets out of joint.

T-minus 2.5 years. Fix Vette. It’s on the road for three weeks. Transmission dies. Finances are really rather deep. Go on Lexapro to deal with the stress. Work sucks.
Grandfather continues the usual health related crap. Get to take twin #1 to ICU with stomach flu/diharreah that nearly kills him. While he’s in the hospital, twin #2 gets it. But since it’s not bad enough to warrant hospitalization, we get to spend from 1 am to 6 am, feeding him a Tbsp of water, every ten minutes, in order to keep him hydrated.

T-minus 2 years. Childcare person decides she wants a real job, we get to put the kids in daycare. We then catch every motherfuckin’ bug on the planet.

T-minus 1.5 years - Kids hit terrible twos. We’re unable to leave the house, go anywhere, and we head rapidly towards losing our identity as a married couple. Finances are so tight that dinner out at a nice place isn’t wise. Fix Corvette. Lasts two months. Transmission dies again. Work continues to suck. (I’m in a glass cubicle, which, due to a faustian arangement, I’ll probably die in.) Grandfather continues to outlive everybody he’s ever known. Loses his girlfriend and best friend (two people) to Parkinsons.

T-minus .5 years. Things start to ease. the list of crap falling off my plate gets to the point that I actually CLEAR the plate. Then I get to deal with Generalized anxiety disorder. Go back on Lexapro. Feel numb, switch to Well butrin, and manage. Grandfather goes from being an independant fella in his own apartment with his own car, to a guy on Medicaid sharing a room with another guy and gets $50 a month. He’s lost his property, his dignity, his mobility. Buy golly, at least I don’t get called in the middle of the night anymore. Only I do. Nobody notices that my Mom’s now the first person on the list. And due to another crappy turn of events, I get to be the one that sells his car out from behind his back. Don’t that make me feel like a winner.

—Please, do not think I have it in for my Grandfather. I merely include him as a HUGE source of my stress over the last few years has been centered around assisting him.—

We get a sizable Tax Refund! We pay down a chunk of debt! One of the cars is paid off! We could be debt free by the end of the summer! It’s like I can see the end of the tunnel. Work starts to turn around. Management is making things a little better for the peons.

It lasts three weeks

My dad takes ill. I’ve been advised to fly out to see him as he might not make it. The visit was totally worth it. I return to work with the feeling that he’s turned the corner.

He dies two weeks later.

We fly me, the wife, and the twins out to see Mom. It’s a $4000 month. We’re right back in the hole we just dug ourself out of. We come home and I can’t possibly figure out how much worse it could get.

Today my wife’s company closed.

SONFOAFUCKINGBITCH! I GET THE POINT ALREADY. Or, rather. WHAT IS THE POINT YOU’RE TRYING TO MAKE!?!?

I look at our finances while at work. Things are okay. We can do this. We’ve got enough money to limp along two or more years if necessary. I spend some time in a park regaining my center.

I go to pick the twins up from daycare. Twin #2 who is potty training went through all four pairs of clothes we send with him this morning. Both of them were repeatedly pulled off from each other for wresteling and not listening to the teachers.

I damnear freaking lose it. No violence. That’s not my way. But I’m feeling unhinged.

So. I just got done paying the bills. the minimums. The wife is understandably shaky, the kids are in bed. The refinance paperwork on the Second mortgage (more money for a real loan, rather than an interest only one) was incomplete, so the guy has to come back tomorrow.

The only positive evenyt today: The radon in the basement isn’t bad enough to need mitigation. Woo hoo.

The airbag light is on in my car. I’m sure that’s expensive.

the Corvette Transmission is still persona non grata. But now the relatively cheap fix that’ll Really fix it ($200) is out of reach.

I haven’t talked to Grandfather lately. I’m a little bitter he outlived Dad. by 30 fucking years!

The extravagant purchases over the last few weeks now look pretty damned stupid in light of our current financial situation.

I can’t call the person who’s advice I treasured the most. He’s dead.

What the fuck, folks. I remember seeing a ‘life stress’ questionnaire. It said you had stress if you experienced any one of the following: death in the family, money issues, work stress, family strife, halitosis, minor hangnail. for the first time in my life, I’ve got a Royal Flush in Spades.

What the fuck am I experienceing? I guess the only real answer is to keep trudging along, but christ. When does it end and when am I allowed to relax?

2

Hmmph. I forgot. My Mother in law got a hysterectomy in there somewhere, after a protracted illness, my father in law went in for major surgery on his right lung, and Sister-in-law’s family got their whole life’s assets taken away when their company folded, taking their house along with it.

Don’t get near, it may be communicable.

3

I don’t know. But it will. It’s got to, right?

Please hang in there. Just hold on as tight as you can–to your wife, your kids, anything positive that helps. It’ll get better.

4

I thought so. The Dad died. I stopped thinking that this was the last of it and my wife lost her job.

Now, I don’t know. I’m tired of even asking the question. I’m just afraid it’ll ‘ramp up to the next level’.

5

I’m sorry that you have had so many terrible things go bad all at once. Sometimes things do seem to pile up all at once.

There is always going to be some stress. It never goes away completely. Learning how to cope is really important. There are things that you can do to make it easier.

My motto: I only dread one day at a time.

6

I’m feelin’ ya- a few years ago I went through a bad stretch. I mean so bad that I started wondering if someone had put a curse on me. But then I got through it, and life got normal again. And yours will, too. In the meantime, nothing wrong with finding someone to talk to about it to help you deal and not take it out on the wife and kids. Not that you would, but you know.

What about the Corvette- can’t you sell it if you have to? It might mean a lot to you, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Sounds trite, but hang in there. Life will get better. Probably.

7

Hmm … do you live in my closet because I’ve been having my own case of this sort of crap thing for the past several years.
Whatever you do, never say “things couldn’t get any worse” because someone will have to prove you wrong.

8

Like sell the lemon corvette? And with the money buy a used mini-van that will get better gas mileage? And use the rest of the money to then pay down debt?

Look, Unintentionally Blank, I appreciate a good rant as much as the next guy, but you gotta realize that what sympathy I had went out the window with the continued mentioning of the Corvette. What do you do? Put the twins in the trunk when you want to go somewhere? Sell the fucking thing. It has to be the most impractical vehicle you could have with a family. When you are 50 and the kids have left home, buy another one then. You have a family now. Your lifestyle will change and not for the better financially because of it. The benefits will be being a part of your kids growing up and sharing that experience with your wife. They could grow up to be the people who cure cancer. Or they could be the next Hitler. Most likely though, given the type of parents they seem to have, they probably will grow up as people who resent having to drive a measly 200 miles once in a blue moon to see a dying relative who is so inconsiderate by not dying fast enough to avoid being an inconvenience.

9

I know anything could say would sound trite so I’ll just say I hope things get better soon.

10

Well, this didn’t come across in the OP, but up til this point, we’ve been pretty fortunate. We have a nice house, we have several cars. Two Corvettes, an Avalanche and a PT cruiser. Everything but the Avalanche is paid for. That happened by not turning cars at the end of their car loan.

We have two years worth of savings before we touch the retirement savings OR the property (Cars). Could we sell them? yeah, if we had to. Would it make any bit of difference other than to depress us? No. The car in question has been almost entirely rebuilt by my hand. I wouldn’t get a fraction of the money spent back. It’s not a lemon car because it’s really not a car any more, it’s a static piece of hobby that’s hiding in the back of the garage for a better day. It’s inclusion in this thread only serves to show another stressor, another thing that hasn’t gone right.

There’s probably $35k of worth in both Corvettes. We probably paid $80k to get them that way. Would YOU sell them to handle $10k in debt? That’s not a very economically sound decision.

If you HAD an asset, and you had money, and you had the debt…would you give up your advantage (the money and assets) just so you didn’t have the debt? Sure, for two weeks you’d have no assets and no debt, but what happens the week after than when you REALLY need the money? You go back in to debt. And now you don’t have the assets any more.

But with all that HAS gone wrong, there’s still a lot left that COULD go wrong. The marriage is sound, Our health is good, our medical costs contained, the rest of the family is still living. If anything, the last four years serves as a reminder of just how much bad crap can happen without hitting the Big Ticket Items.

11

I’ve already addressed the cars as much as I care to. They don’t cost anything if they’re not driven.

The grandfather? Live my life before judging me on that one. It sounds horrible for me to say the things I have about him, but how much of that is bitterness at being the last support line? How much of it is the thought that I have another DUTY to insert in between the cracks and crevices of raising the kids, going to the crappy dead-end job, and maintaining a marriage that’s undergoing a bunch of stress? How much of it was the 5 or 6 2 am phonecalls that he was being taken down the hill to the hospital, and when would I be there to see him?

How much is it bitterness that the guy that’s living in the nursing home has a situation so far out of my ability to help, that all I see is his continued complaints. Because when I DO see him, that’s all he’s got. Does he deserve the support? You betcha. Do I have it to give? no. Do I get a nice frosting of ‘how did you outlive my dad?’ Fuck yes.

He’s a poor old man with no money, 125 miles from me, and I can’t afford the gas. I couldn’t get him in a better situation if I wanted to as it would take so much more money than I have that the endgame would be 5 broke people, rather than 4 dogpaddeling and one completeley supported by medicare/medicaid/social security.

How do you get to the point where you have so little emotional ability to support that you don’t feel like you can support a grandparent? Do you think I’m proud of that?

Do ya think there’ll be a little guilt gnawing at me when he DOES pass? Because if you don’t you’re missing a big part of the picture.

12

From a financial standpoint, you should look at it in reverse and see if it makes the same sense.

Pretend you’ve got your 2 years of savings, one Corvette, $7,500 in the bank and no debt. Sounds nice, don’t it? You see a Corvette for $17,500, so you have to go into $10K of debt to buy it. Would you decide, today, to buy it?

Your choice is to either have zero debt and $7,500 in the bank earning interest, or have a second Corvette (with its associated maintenance costs) and a $10,000 debt that you pay interest on. There is no good financial reason to keep two corvettes unless you expect them to appreciate over time.

Yes, it’s an “asset” but you have to pay money to maintain it or it just rots in your driveway. Other assets, like CASH do not take money to maintain, and actually earn money over time. I’m also not getting the whole “when you really need the money” thing. If you really need money, go back into debt. At least you would have spent the time between getting out of debt and getting back in with zero debt and zero interest payments. As it is, you’re paying interest on the debt, maintenance, registration, insurance on the car, and the value stored in the car is not earning much of anything.

Given that a significant amount of your stress is financial, maybe you should think about fixing your finances.

13

I’m sorry you’ve been having so many problems. I found it helps to talk to people in similar positions, so you don’t feel so alone and can get advice and sympathy.

Turning to your cars and finance, I think you are missing the point.
You have spent $80K on them and they are now worth $35K. OK, then forget the $80K. That’s gone.
The question is what will these cars be worth in the future.
If they will increase in value, then you can consider them an investment. However it doesn’t sound like they will. Therefore you are holding on to an ‘asset’ that could pay off your debts right now, but will drop in value, while you pay interest on your debt.
Unless you need both cars for transport, sell at least one. I realise they have sentimental value for you, but once you clear your debts, you can consider starting again.

14

Agreed. I had to do the same thing about two years ago, except the car I sold (a '73 AMX) was *appreciating * when I sold it.
Don’t be blind to the interest on your debt. When you say you’ve been making minimum payments, you’re basically paying the interest. Sell the car(s), and when you’re debt free (and it will be easier to do once the interest load is off your back) you can look at getting another one. Those things are money pits anyway. Expecially two of them, and don’t expect them to appreciate anytime soon, unless you have some rare model.
The rest of the stuff with the kids I can understand.
We’ve got three kids (6, 5, 3) and only one source of income and I’m pretty sure you make more than me (I could never have afforded two 'Vettes, ever) and we’re getting by OK. Look at restructuring your debt/capitol pyramid to ease that part of your life. Three months after selling the cars you’ll forget what it was like to drive them and a year later you’ll forget you ever owned 'em. Except now you’ll be debt free and some peace of mind to show for it.

15

Hang in there.

Actually I’m just driving by to ask advice. When do the twins start to get easier? I’ve got 17 month old twin girls. We have a tremendous amount of help here but it’s still a lot of work for me (I have only a small understanding of what you’ve gone through).

16

I also think the reason you’ve included the 'Vettes in the OP is you were sort of fishing to see you’d get the kind of responses you got in posts #11, 12, 13, and 14.
I think you know what you need to do.

Now, what’re you asking for the Vettes? :cool:

17

I had made sure that the Corvettes were in a financially stable point (read: paid off) when we found out we were having twins. They cost nothing sitting in the back of the garage, except a little money in car insurance. In the time period we’re talking about, they’re not going to ‘rot’. It would be shortsighted to pitch them at this point.

Further, it would cost more money to eventually REPLACE them than would be saved in paying down the debt. Our 98 Corvette in 98 cost $42000. That was 6 years of $800 a month car payments. To replace with a current Corvette, it’d be $30k or more. So essentially, we had enough money to buy them before the kids. We can not, responsibly, replace them now that we have kids.

Place whatever preconceived notions of hairy chested balding middle-aged man in mid-life crisis you may have. These cars mean much more to me than any other ‘item’ we have.

One is a 16 year old car with less than 4000 miles on its drivetrain that I built myself. I paid $15000 for it, and easily another $15000 to get it that way. Pfft. Lets throw away a 7 year restoration effort and sell a car in pieces and get $11k out of it.

The other has 50,000 miles and is my wife’s. She supercharged it and retrofitted a HUD to it herself. It cost $42k, plus another $12k in various mods. It’d get, maybe, $32k. But probably less cause, you know, it’s got a supercharger on it and has probably been abused. :dubious:

They represent a lot of sweat equity that’s worth more emotionally, in the back of the garage then they would as a credit at the bottom of the budget. They’re mostly money spent that can’t be got back if they’re sold.

If I have to, I’ll sell them. But we’re going to have to be in MUCH worse financial shape before I’m willing to do that. Let’s throw a number out there, just cause. Call it when the Wife’s unemployment benefits are up.

I think it must also be said that our vehicle expenses are pretty reasonable. The wife (used) to drive 24 miles round trip each way in the Avalanche. I’m taking the bus, with maybe a 2 mile round trip to get to the Bus. The annual pass makes taking the bus a good $2000 cheaper than any other car based commuting possibility.

So, we have a single $460 car payment, plus $100 a month in gas, and another $150 a month in insurance and taxes, and $75 a month for bus fare. The gas will drop until the wife gets a job, and the other amounts wouldn’t change much if we altered our vehicle line-up. That $460 a month is a big chunk, but again, we’re looking at a huge loss in depreciation for a short-term gain. With gas prices and the SUV market being what they are, we’d take a bath in selling the Av. We’d be lucky to get out from under the car loan, then we’d have to turn around and get another car to haul the family as the wife can’t drive a stick. Our remaining family hauler is a stick.

I think, at this point, it’d be really easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The IT market is heating up around here, and the wife’s got some really good experience and abilities. She’s been unemployed less than 24 hours. Lets see what happens.

18

It’s a fair point to say that you shouldn’t sell them in response to your wife’s recent unemployment. However, the bulk of your rant included various financial issues over the years, and the Vettes aren’t helping on that front. They also represent an opportunity cost, and an asset that will decrease in value over time.

Replace?

Financially, you have to get away from the “money spent” part of this and focus on their current value. That value is not going to go up in the near term, it’ll go down. You could be losing $3,000/yr in value between these two cars from depreciation alone. You can put $40k in your bank today, but when you “really” need it, in 2 years, it’ll be $34k. That has to be part of the equation.

I’m not sure where you are, but selling a sports car in January (after 6mo of unemployment runs out) can be tough around my area.

Take a step back and think about the vettes again. Honestly take stock, what is more important, having 2 luxury sports cars, or having financial security? What’s really most important is your happiness, and your financial situation seems to be dragging you down. There’s nothing wrong with having hobbies, but when they’re very expensive, you have to think about lower cost options.

19

I’m going to offer some contrarian advice, at the moment.

Since you say that you’ve got enough of a cushion, now. You make the very cogent point that your wife has been laid off for all of 24 hours. I don’t believe that you can plan your life expecting that she’ll get a job before the week is up, but give yourself, and her, at least a month to see how things are going, before you go into panic mode.

Right now, just avoid unnecessary expenses, and hang in there.

Best wishes for you and your family in this situation.

20

Cheesesteak I agree completely with where you’re coming from. I also think that without a full rekoning of our finances, we appear to be weaker than we are.

Without compromising my position with publishing my finances in a public, permenant record, we have 401k’s, home equity, and PERA retirement funds we can tap into that haven’t entered the picture. We have $25kin readily available liquid assets, and with the wife’s unemployment, we’ll be net positive $600 a month while paying full time childcare.

If we lose the unemployment, we pull the kids out of childcare, and on my income we’re net -$500 a month.

Before the funeral expense, we were throwing nearly $2000 a month into paying off $6000 in credit card debt. We’ve paid, exactly, one minimum Credit card bill in the last 10 years. This month.

Without selling anything, we can hold our breath for nearly two years on just our cash assets.

We are not your usual live by the credit card people. The Corvettes, today, are non-negotiable, and really incidental to the mental losses we’ve sustained. Pick the bestest thing you’ve ever had, then have a stranger say ‘meh’, pitch it, it’s financially wise. How would you feel?