What nation’s been around the longest and what (perhaps) former nation lasted the least amount of time? By “nation” I mean a state that’s been recognized to a significant degree by the international community. So no North Sea oil platforms or gay islands off Autralia.
China.
Thass old!
It also fails to qualify. The government of China only dates to 1949, well within the lifetime of many people now living under it.
The Holy See might have a claim to oldest recognized nation.
England was last conquered by force in 1066.
It depends on how you define a nation. We’ve had this discussion before. If you consider the People’s Republic of China to be the same country as the Shang Dynasty Empire, then it’s China. If you consider the United States of America under the Constitution of 1789 to be the same country as the the United States of America in 2006, then it’s the USA. If you consider the Republic of Kenya to be the successor state to the Lake Turkana tribes, then it’s Kenya.
Do you mean nation-state with continuous government? Because that might throw China out, and would leave France looking pretty paltry, too.
Hmm. I may have confused things with my terminology. Continuity of government or style of government isn’t an issue for me, although it’s certainly interesting. The China of 1948 AFAIK covered substantially the same territory as did the China of 1950, both of which were recognized by the international community, so as I was conceiving the question would qualify as a continuous nation. I’m thinking more in terms of territorial integrity.
OK, so let’s go to the other end of the spectrum. What nation lasted the least amount of time?
For shortest, how about Zanzibar? It was a British colony that gained independence in January 1963, and merged with Tanganyika in April of 1964, forming Tanzania. So it was an independent nation for 16 months (it was independent for various times before the British took over, but the independent Zanzibar of 1963 was only a small portion of what it was proor to British rule).
The California Republic had a pretty short run: June 14 – July 7, 1846. I don’t know whether it had any international recognition, though; I’m willing to bet pesos to papas that Mexico didn’t recognize it.
Wasn’t there some country that lasted less than a day?
I thought that San Marino was the oldest country in the World. From that Wiki link:
The short end of the spectrum is going to be next to impossible to agree on because of things like the “Bear Flag Republic”. Given the speed of communications in those days, that wasn’t long enough for them to have become internationally recognized, even if any nations had wanted to. I vote for the Bear Flag Republic having actually been an “interim civil authority”, as I’ve heard it called. They turned over control to the US as soon as they realized the Mexican-American war was on. However, it’s possibly to argue that they were a “nation” by some measures.
Rubbish.
The OP doesn’t say government, it says nation.
And a nation is defined by a collective identity set and by a cultural bond.
China, therefore, qualifies.
By that standard, wouldn’t Sumeria also qualify, and have been a collective identity set far longer?
If they are using cuniform to sell Coca-Cola, or worshipping MARDUK every day, maybe.
For geo-political entity, perhaps Egypt would qualify? It’s been there and had continuous government since well before 2500 BC.
Are Modern Chinese written dialects the same as back in 261 B.C?
I wouldn’t say people identify with Sumer today, but when did the identity die off? Several hundred years after the government collapsed, I am sure. So I wouldn’t say that the national identity lasted a whole lot longer, but easily as long or slightly longer than China. Approx 4000 BC to 2000 BC.
I do wonder what it means when one says National Identity when governments and some aspects of culture change. Can a Chinese from today really say they share the same national identity as one from 200 BC? Is it only because there is some culture that remains, and if so, is the name “China” important? Why can’t somebody from Italy say they share similar national identity with Rome?
False.
It has been governed by the French, English, the Caliphate, the Turks, etc.
Self-governence vanished for well over 1000 years.
“Nation” and “state” are not interchangeable terms. A nation is a group of people united by some conbination of cultural, linguistic, ethnic and territorial bonds which give them an indentity which distinguishes them from neighbouring communities. A state (in the sense of an internationally-recognised sovereign entity) is a political construct governing a specific territory, which may or may not be the territory occupied by a particular nation.
To illustrate, Ireland was a nation, and generally accepted as such, long before it became a state. Scotland is still a nation, though it has ceased to be a state. The USSR was certainly a state, but was never a nation (though it included several nations). There are numerous Arab states, but a single Arab nation. The Vatican City State is arguably a state, but not a nation. The Holy See is neither a state nor a nation. France is both a nation and a state.
The OP asks about nations. It’s in the nature of nations that they do change somewhat over time, as language, culture and even ethnicity are not static. Ireland no longer has Irish as its dominant language, but we do not normally think of it as a different nation because of that.
I agree that China probably has a case to be recognised as the nation with the oldest continuing national identity. I suspect, but I do not know, that Japan could make a similar claim.
I doubt that the shortest-lived nation question can be answered, since the emergence of a distinct nation generally takes time. When did Australia come to regard itself as a nation separate from the British nation? Over a period of time during the twentieth century is the best anwer that I think anyone can give. That probably doesn’t make Australia the shortestg-lived nation (so far), but it is one of the youngest. On the other hand, if you consider Aboriginal Australians to constitute a nation, it is one of the oldest.
If you treat the OP as refering to states, not nations, then changes of government are irreleavnt. France has existed as an internationally recognised state for centuries, despite have passed through a kingdom, two empires, five republics and a rather ill-defined quasi-fascist regime throughout that time. States are constituted by recognition by other states, and they do not generally cease to be recognised merely because of a change of government, whether achieved by peaceful or violent means.
Again, I think China has a good claim to have been continuously recognised as a sovereign political entity for longer than any other state. The problem here is that concepts like ‘sovereignty’ and ‘recognition’ only evolved themselves at a certain point in history, and to apply them too far backwards is anachronistic.