I know nothing about the cultural norms in Bali, but this issue came on travel boards, and several people wrote that smiling, giggling, or even laughing are indeed often sign of embarassment or uneasiness there, and in this case could have been prompted by the embarrassing declarations of the terrorist in front of the cameras.
"cultural differences " do exist. I don’t know whether or not it’s true in this case, as these travellers state, but if they’re right, it’s in no way a “repugnant behavior”. It not because in your culture smiling/giggling necessarily shows you’re happy/amused that it’s the same somewhere else. Still if these people are right, the police officers had a perfectly normal behavior, that probably the locals understood perfectly as embarrassment.
One of these posters, for instance, wrote that once the steward was smiling and giggling when announcing there was a problem with the landing of the plane, and that the passengers reacted with a similar behavior.
Once again, that’s only second hand comments (and from the net), so I don’t know if they’re reliable or not. But one can’t just assume that some behavior (grinning in this case) is necessarily understood in the same way everywhere, and carry the same message everywhere. Except if you actually know Bali well enough to know how such a behavior would be interpreted by the locals, you’ve no reason to assume it’s in any way “repugnant”, rather than perfectly natural.
I’m honestly curious as to how Bali was harboring terrorists
and if your answer is ‘becuase they lived there and were never found’ then,
I’d like to know how you feel about the U.S., considering the terrorist cells that continue to thrive all over this fine country.
I still can’t believe in the month of November, in the year of our lord 2002, we have to remind people not to paint everyone with the same fucking brush, Lola.
Well, now that Bali is aware that they are amongst them, they need to root them out. How do I feel about the terrorist cells in the States? I think we should root them out.
What fucking brush are you talking about?
The whole point of this thread was about the NATIONAL POLICE CHIEF laughing at one of the Bali bombers. What message does that send?
And now apparently we find out it’s just a cultrural thing.
You are missing one minor point - when this thread was made, it was made with the understanding that they were making a mockery of this tragedy - Subsequently we discover it’s just a cultural thing.
The uproar is about how Balinese officials behaved while questioning a terrorist. See, the ‘questioning a terrorist’ bit? That would be the ‘rooting them out’ you refer to. They’re already doing it, and don’t need you to tell them how to do it, or what the ‘consequences’ will be if they don’t. You fucking muppet.
Subsequently we discover you were wrong. Twice. And graceful indefeat to boot. Lovely.
Oh man. I’m sorry. I guess I missed the post where you acknowledged you were wrong AND took back your wish to tell Australians what to do with their vacation time.
No, sparky, I can say what I like - it’s called an opinion.
Ouch. That stung.
(why the anger? go have a drink or something)
Yeah, I should follow your example. You’re a regular ballerina.
and to JarbabyJ:
I am Australian - my sister’s been to Bali twice and one of her best friends lost someone in the attack. I wouldn’t want her going back there any time soon - but guess what? I am entitled to my opinion.
This thread has become ridiculously antagonistic. Bottom line is I am entitled to my opinion. Yes, I am less infuriated having found out that the grinning is a cultural thing, but still if I had the choice between going to Bali or Hawaii on my vacation - I think you know where I’d go…
I shall now disappoint my detractors by bowing out of this thread, but when you get to Bali, send me a postcard, 'kay?
You are entitled to your opinion, just as I’m entitled to point out how much of an imbicile you are.
This had nothing to do with where you would go on holiday, this was you condoning an entire nations suffering because you dont feel they are doing enough to root out terrorists evin though they are.
You eschew facts and instead concentrate on cheap personal insults. I have yet to see you address any real point in this thread.
You are entitled to keep your opinion.
The bottom line is that your opinion on this matter is wrong. You want to see an entire nation suffer because YOU don’t think they are doing enough to prevent terrorism. Is arresting a a suspect not enough?
You are entitled to keep your opinion.
I am entitled to tell you your opinion is basically full of shit.
I point out your error, and you try to insult me by insinuating I have a small penis.
What a fucking debating technique.
You, madam, are an idiot. We are here to fight ignorance, not perpetuate it.
So, bow out of the thread. We all know you are doing it with your tail between your legs.
Oh yeah, one more thing, TwistOfFate - do you live in the fucking pit? You always seem to be here.
I guess I should start being more sympathetic towards you, however, as it’s clearly not your fault that you are the result of your mother inbibing in one too many Guinesses while you were still in the womb.
Life will get better for you, I promise.
Try getting out more, maybe that’ll be effective.
Speaking of which, the weekend is here! Try not to miss me too much while I’m gone, sweetie.
“Smiling for the cameras during a bizarre public interrogation, one of the Bali terror bombers pointed at Western reporters yesterday and said, "Those are the sorts of people that I wanted to kill."
Police and reporters erupted with laughter at Amrozi’s remark in a scene that a top Australian police official likened to a “circus.””
Quite an over-reaction on my part, I admit. I now understand that the laughter was due to embarrassment, not anything sinister. I just thought that laughing at, with, or in the presence of the targets of the terrorist’s remark, the Western reporters (which likely included a good number of Australians), was disrepectful. Since the laughter wasn’t intended that way, no harm, no foul.
:: duly noting that once again Lola had no way to back up her stance that all of Bali’s economy should suffer for the idiocy of a few (be it cultural or not) and instead is availed of pithy insults and another broken promise to leave::
I think Lola was expressing an emotional reaction, not a logical one: after all, somebody she knows was killed in the bombing. She has acknowledged that the laughter was probably just a cultural misunderstanding, asa did milroyj, and I’d like to thank both of them for revealing themselves to have flexible thinking rather than rock-hard opinions. It’s tough to admit you might of have been wrong, and brave of them to acknowledge it.
Why can’t we all just get along?
This message brought to you courtesy of Mild Hangover, Inc.
I get the idea that for Aussies, that news conference was the rough equivalent of us Americans watching Palestinian children on CNN laughing and whooping it up after 9/11.
I understand that she’s acknowledged that the grinning was cultural, and I’m happy we got that resovled as it was bizarre.
What is still unresolved is Lola’s idea that every citizen of a country somehow deserves and should be economically crippled because of the actions of a few. I don’t care if that one police chief was was doubled over in orgasmic joy, it doesn’t justify wishing ill on the family of four ten miles away.
I don’t know if “deserving” comes into it. If anything, do the citizens of Indonesia “deserve” to be protected from the natural economic and diplomatic consequences of living under a corrupt and terrorist-friendly regime?
And that’s when I asked how the regime is terrorist FRIENDLY as opposed to just not being able to root them out and bring them to justice (which, as it happens, is the same problem the U.S. of A. is having).
“not being able to” implies that there is some kind of effort underway. As I mentioned earlier, up until the Bali attacks the Indonesian government kept blowing off US concerns over terrorism.
I tend to suspect that there is a mentality in East and SE Asia that terrorism is a Western problem and therefore doesn’t warrant a serious effort. Maybe if their populations suffer a little bit as a direct result of this inaction, this might serve as a wake up call.
