I grew up in a house that had shotguns, rifles, and handguns and it was made very clear to my two brothers and I that we were never allowed to touch them or play with them and we knew we’d get our ass beat if we did. We respected our father enough to obey what he said back then because we knew what the consequences would be if we didn’t. I was 10 years old when I took my hunter’s safety course and got my certificate. So how old do you think kids should be before they start learning about guns and gun safety? Is 10 about the right age? Too old? Too young?
Screw the whole calibre thing. Get a Desert Eagle if you have 900 bucks. Whichever calibre you choose for it, the gun will blow a barn door in the back of any would-be robber’s head.
I don’t know what the difference is between a “man’s ruler” and a standard measure. However, when I bought it there were 2 barrel options - the 7 and the 9 inch (or 7.5 and 9.5, you know, I can’t remember now, and I’m not home to measure it…).
Yes, the recoil is harsh, but not that bad, because the gun is very heavy. The principal reason I chose the Ruger was because it’s grips fit very nicely in small hands (I do have small, thin hands). The S&W and Dan Wesson models have those stupid-ass “Western Style” grips that only are comfortable being held by a 6’4" hairy behemoth of a man. 
And yes, I know I could have changed the grips, but I had other reasons for wanting the Super Redhawk. I can fire about 50-100 rounds before I start to go numb, so that makes for a good day’s shooting.
It is hilarious when little ol’ me goes to the range, and I get in the steel booth (cubicle?) alongside most people that have .22’s, .38’s, 9mm’s, even .357’s. The sound right before and when I fire goes like:
Bang! Bang! Bang! KAAABBLOOOOOOMMMM!!!
and then the range is illuminated by the flames leaping out of the barrel of my gun, which sometimes are longer than the steel cubicle’s walls.
Then inevitably, I notice that I’m the only one still shooting, as everyone else has secured their weapons and gathered behind me to watch and chuckle at little ol’ me with the .44 Mag. Then usually everyone want’s to try firing it, at $0.50 per shot, and they never reimburse me for the ammo (grrr…)
So ladies - win friends! Be popular! Be the life of the party! Take a .44 Mag to your local firing range! 
Ah, but Phil, you’re one of those crraaaaazy people who recognizes a right exists even if you do not at this time choose to exercise it.
I also have two ex-friends who are both life members of the NRA (purchased with their own money) who do not and have never owned a firearm in their lives. It seems strange even to me somewhat to commit that much money without being an actual firearms owner, but Jeeze I gotta admire them.
The reason they give? One said he did it to “make sure when he needs or wants a firearm, he will still be able to have one”. And the other said “I agree.”
I have a . 22 caliber semi-auto rifle. I have a .22 caliber semi-auto clip load Ruger pistol, I have a .22 clipload little Jennings and a 9 mm clipload pistol.
The 9 mm is for anything major because of the stopping power, but I’ve handled several situations with both the Ruger and the Jennings. .22 caliber bullets are some of the nastiest things out because, being so light, they tend to bounce off of bone and fragment and mess things up.
They are also cheap if you like to target shoot, like I do in order to make sure that I have a chance of hitting my target and not the neighbor behind me.
I had a couple of shotguns for a time, impressed with their fire power, but they’re a little expensive to shoot so when an offer came my way, I sold them.
I know these guys with portable hand cannon that are equipped with everything but sonar and fire shells that weigh almost as much as my Jennings - but all they do with them is brag. They bring them out for their buddies to oooh and aaaah over, go to the range and fire off 16 shots at 50 cents each – which even the laser sight doesn’t help them hit the target well and then they boast about the huge hole the bullet makes. Plus they have them securely locked away, trigger guards in place and unloaded so that if they ever did need them quick, the crook would walk up and bonk them on the head before they could get the thing ready.
Then steal the gun and show it off to his buddies.
So, unless you are in dire fear of your life, get something reasonable. The big secret is to make it damn difficult for anyone to get into your house in the first place.
Heck, you can even buy a .25 caliber pistol that is disguised to look like a billfold, so if held up, when you get out your wallet, you plug the mugger.
I’ve not had to bring any gun out for roughly 25 years except to clean them, go target shooting and change the ammunition.
A little word about trigger locks…
It seems to me that the purpose of these much-debated-over devices would be if you had a large gun collection, and wanted to make sure that you keep your long-range night-scoped target rifle safe for people to handle. Of course it’s obvious to not lock up the handgun (or shotgun, depending on your tastes :D) that you keep beside your bed, but it’d probably actually be useful if you put a lock on the “showpieces” that you keep in the gun locker or on the rack. Just a little thought, everyone carry on with their business…
By the way, anybody wanna arrange a 'Doper Target-Shooting Party? I’d love to blast a couple of clay pigeons again (been too long since I’ve been shooting).
I need to get over to this side of the message board more often. Other than an irresistable urge to lecture NukeMan with facts and figures, this seems like one of the funnest topics to come along in a while.
My newest fave is my Springfield Arms V-10 Ultra Compact .45, with a ported barrel. Easy to carry concealed, yet accurate enough for home defense. And, like other’s have said before, when you hit someone with a .45, they stay down.
I’ve always been something of a pistolero, but have recently (just this year) taken up rifles as well. I love wasting an afternoon blasting away with my Ruger Mini-14; that much fun shouldn’t be legal!
On a “personal preferences” note, I don’t trust mechanical safeties and devices; I was raised to Think Safe, Act Safe, Be Safe. So I tend to put more thought into stuff like keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, keeping my finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger, always, Always, ALWAYS checking the chamber/cylinder, and never, ever pulling the trigger unless I am 100% sure of my target.
If some folks are serious about shotguns for home defense Mossberg has a 12ga. with an 18.5" barrel and a pistol-grip.
If the recoil seems daunting, maybe try a 16ga.
And always check your state’s laws about use of lethal force, and just maybe check with a lawyer about civil liability just in case you ever do have to shoot someone
Anyway, here’s some good options at the American Firearms Page.
Happy (and above all, SAFE!) shooting!
ExTank
*“BANG! Heh. BANGBANG! Heh heh!”
Rachelle said:
I think that depends on the kid. I was considerably yonger than that–five or six (it’s hard to be sure after 30 + years); by 10, I not only knew where the loaded guns were, I was expected to use them if anyone ever broke in. (No one ever did.) By age 12 there was a loaded revolver–a Ruger Blackhawk .44 Magnum–stationed in my dresser drawer, just in case. (Yes, I shot .44s at that age.)
But that was me–not every kid is going to be mature and trustworthy enough for that sort of thing, at 10 or even older. I’ve known younger people that I have no qualms at all over them shooting, but I’ve known alleged “adults” I wouldn’t hand a gun to under any circumstances. Too much variation for a hard and fast rule.
Hey! That’s what I was thinking of getting if CC passed in Kansas.
I have 2 Mini-14’s, and here’s somthing to make you drool - I have one Stainless, Factory-Folding Stock, Ranch Rifle Mini 14, with Factory stainless 20-round clip and scope rings - new in box!. A true collector’s edition!
Don’t sell short the 20 gauge either, still plenty of OOOMPH! to incapacitate a criminal.
I’m no expert on child raising, but here is my 2 cents. I took my nephew for his first gun safety course when he was 10. I also took him out on a private range with one of my old shooting buddies and we gave him a few private lessons, concentrating mostly on the safety issues covered in this thread. He seems to do pretty well with it and now has much more respect for and a much more serious attitude toward all firearms.
I lived in Montana for 9 years. It’s one of the only places that I’ve seen where it is not uncommon to see as you drive down the neighborhood street one or two of your neighbors standing outside with rifles on shoulders, talking about the latest hunt. Every house has multiple rifles and various other weaponry. Hunter safety is taught in high school as a regular elective class, like drivers ed.
I have yet to see any of these horrible gun tragedies with teens happen to anyone in Mt. Is there a correlation maybe? 
I know that there is a time for young men especially where they become interested in things that blow up or go “boom”. To scratch the itch in a safe and educational way seems reasonable to me, but that is just MHO.
hey guys chill okay? Im only joking about the NRA.
Like any male (go on admit it) I like the idea of guns, and I play games like ‘Half-life’ that are directly concerned with guns (yep, Nukeman is my screen name on WON) Its just people who think that they are so ‘hard’ with their pump action shotguns etc tthat piss me off because they think they are invincible. I cant quote any statistics or anything, but if you look at it logically, more guns = more shootings. You can say that if there are more guns then more people will be educated about safety, but until everyone in the country is educated about gun safety there will always be people who get hold of guns and accidentally kill themselves, or get drunk and kill their wives for adultery etc, or become neo-nazis and massacre schoolchildren.
By the way red dragon, ive never fired a real gun in my life (apart from an air rifle) but any one who plays counter-strike will tell you that the problem with a desert eagle is that it has such a small clip. Before you know it, youve fired off youre last bullet while your terrorist friend with the glock has put three neat 9mm holes in your chest. Also theyre bloody loud.
OK, I admit that I have not read all the way through the posts, and this all may be covered in other posts. I am a gun nut with several years of experience in this, so here is my take.
The Berretta is a fine weapon. You will not go wrong with either 9 or .40 cal. It is a bit large for Conceiled carry. I would suggest a “slimline” (i.e. single stack magazine) for CCW. As a home defence weapon, it is perfect.
Magazines- As I understand it, importing Pre-Ban Mags into Cali. is a serious no-no. From My understanding Kalifonia legislators want you to defend yourself with a pointy stick. Properly secured and registered, of course…
Speaking of magazines, you might want to look into a revolver for your bedside gun. Since it would be for that purpose only, I would suggest a Smith or Taurus 7 or 8 shot .357 Mag. And practice with the gun you will use, and with the ammo that you have “for serious social purposes”. Practice the way you play. Another plus for the revolver is it can be left loaded forever and you do not have to worry about a mag spring compressing and taking a set. Another is you can check if it is loaded in the dark. Swing out the cyl. and feel the case heads. And it is point and click. No funky little levers and switches to foul up.
If you are worried about capacity on the revolver, just get a second one. You can pick them up pretty cheap, and the fastest reload is grabbing another gun.
Personally I use a full size glock (depending on dress) or a Kahr MK 9 for CCW, and a Taurus .38 and a Mossberg Persuader 12 Ga for home protection. Of course, Your mileage may vary…
Check rec.guns for all sorts of threads on this topic. And welcome to the club. The shooting sports are addictive and you will enjoy it.
As of right now I have a Knight Wolverine in-line black powder rifle, a 1925 Winchester Model 12 (32 inch barrel) and my Ultimate Ground Squirrel Killer, a Ruger 10/22 target model, bull barrel, laminate stock. All the goodies, although I would like to get a Volquartsen trigger, bolt buffers and a Magnum Research Carbon fiber barrel.
As it is, I can shoot half inch groups at 100 yards, on a calm sunny day.
Fnord, if you’re doing that well you should come down to the ARA benchrest match in Phoenix in two weeks. You just have to put 100 shots completely within the 1/2" circle to get a perfect score No one has ever done that. 3mph gust of wind will knock it out of the 100 ring and the wind is always changing where we shoot.
Seriously consider handgun specific training for defensive shooting, both practical and legal aspects. It’s a whole new ball game than what you’re used to. I also agree with others that trigger locks are a bad joke when it comes to safety, get a mini safe and bolt it down. If you live in an urban area consider what happens to a bullet that goes though a wall and kills a neighbor. If that happens in AZ you’re liable for manslaughter at the very least. Consider using frangible ammo like Glaser safety slugs in the house.
I used to live in a neighborhoods that were somewhat high crime. I had people on two occasions attempt to break into my home while there was someone there. On occasion I held them at gunpoint until the cops showed, on another my room mates girlfriend was home alone met the guy in the livingroom with a hand gun leveled at his face, and he ran. It actually happens quite often, but most of them time no shots are fired. You point a gun at someone who is breaking into your house, and they are going to stop what they are doing most of the time. The statistics dont usually take this into account.
Nukeman: Criminals are notoriously inept with guns. If they have been caught before, they arent supposed ot have them, so they can’t just go to the range and practice like the rest of us. The are more crimes here because we are a violent culture. Remeber, our ancestors were kicked out of every descent country (including yours), so we have a long heritage of violence.
On caliber, .380 is pretty much worthless. The bad guy will probably die, but not until he has had time to do whatever horrible things to you that you were trying to avoid. 9 mm is only slightly better. Most of the cops have abbandoned 9mm for 40 cal.
There was a test done a few years back where they got several hundred goats that they had found to have the same chest cavity size as a human. wired sensors into their brains and messured the time it took for them to go unconcious after being shot in a controlled enviroment. they tested just about every caliber, and every type of bullet. the mag safe and glaser safty bullets took out the goats faster then anything else(mag safe was a little ahead). these rounds are great for home defense because they dont go through sheet rock, or people that easily, so your not likely to kill your neighbor while defending your home. the smaller caliber stuff like 380 as I remember took forever for the goat to pass out, one goat even went back to eating after being shot, and had to be put down.
Shotguns are effective, but only in a medium range situation. Trying to walk through your house with a long gun to check out a noise you heard is asking for it, it gives the the bad guy somehting to grab on to and either take away, or deflect it away from them while they stab/shoot/bludgeon you. a handgun held close to the body is much safer. if you stick the handgun out into the room ahead of you like they do on tv, you have the same problem. Carry the gun tight in against your body, pointed down. If it is pointed up, it is easy for them to charge under it, but they cant get above it. even if they get right on you, you could at least shot them in the leg.
I try to avoid this sort of situations these days. I live in a very low crime neighborhood, I have dogs, and I work a normal computer job instead of working security in bars and high crime appartment complexes(we had at least 1 break in a week). I am very glad not to have to worry about this sort of thing as much, but I still have a berreta .40 cal on my nightstand.
On children, by the way, I have always told my kid that if he wants to look at one of our guns, all he has to do is ask me or my wife, and we will get it out for hime, unload it, and let him look at it. Because of this, he has no real curiousity about it, he know he’s not allowed to touch it without us there, and he has no reason too. we do, however, secure them when he has freinds over.
Jesus Christ. You just don’t get it, do you Nukeman. You make bald assertions, admit they are not based on facts, and then make more stupid and uninformed statements.
Wrong, shootings are down in America ove the past few years, despite the fact that Americans own more guns than ever.
So lack of gun safety education causes suicide, drunkeness, prejudice, and mental instability? Riiiiiiiiiight.
Now, please, if you wish to debate the issue, go to Great Debates and start a damn thread. I suspect, however, that you do not wish to logically debate gun control since you know you’re full of shit and your postion to be untenable.
Let NukeMan shove his foot in his mouth a little farther, UncleBeer. Since I broke my hand, I can’t work out, and I have all this energy to burn.
Maybe I’ll channel it all into a good rant and get booted to the Pit.
Anthracite: I love the little thing (V-10). Some people complain about it’s ammo capacity (6+1), but I feel that 7 rds. are sufficient. Some folks go on-and-on about the adrenaline dump of a “situation” ruining your aim, but I’ve never panicked when the s**t hit the fan; I may come unglued after, but never during, so I’m confident that if I ever have to use it, I’ll be “on target” with the first round.
ExTank
Well said Ex Tank and UncleBeer. FWIW my defensive weapon is a Sig P245. It’s reasonably small and while it’s not high capacity 6 rounds of Cor-Bon .45 ACP plus a backup magazine should be more than sufficient for any situation. Ordinarily I prefer a 1911 type but decided to go with a crunchenticker for defense. It will be left factory stock, not even a trigger job, with the exception of night sights. The Sig, a Sure-Fire tactical light and a celluar phone are a good package.
Kids, we’re getting into scary territory here. Well intentioned medical and legal advice from laypersons can get you into trouble. Find the laws in your state. Arizona has extremely liberal defense laws but just pointing a weapon at a person is in itself use of deadly force even if you don’t fire. In some states you obligated to reteat from a fight before using force to defend yourself. Soon we’ll be like England where there is no right to defend oneself.
Let me answer your question with another question:
How old should your child be when you teach him (or her) not to play with a power socket? Not to touch the hot stove? How to cross the street safely?
I hope that doesn’t sound sarcastic, because it’s not meant to be. Basically it boils down to whether your child can comprehend safety and the mechanics of what he/she is looking at. Also, is the child fascinated with guns? If so, then you want to make teaching gun safety more of a priority, to take away the mystery and the taboo.
Nukeman, are you really saying that your expertise with firearms comes entirely from video games?! Please please please don’t try to add any more “factual” info to this thread any more until you’ve actually fired one!!!
If I made up my mind I needed to kill somebody, lack of a gun would in no way whatsoever stop me. If a man walks in and finds his wife in the act of adultery, there’s always the chance he will kill them both, with or without a gun. It makes no difference. It’s a crime of passion, not of firearms. Get a grip on reality, ok?
Nukeman, you are either a woefully misinformed young man (read Teenybopper) or you are a complete idiot. Either way, you have made it to my “posters that are ignorant” list.
If by some chance you are that misinformed misguided young man, well I feel sad for you then, but at least you might have a shot (pun intended) at learning what you are talking about.
If you somehow made it past the teen years and are still so uniformed and ignorant of the issues you speak of: shut up! at least until you find an informed opinion to steal an idea from.