Lord of the Rings Mafia

[Gadarene]

:smack:

[Chronos]

Gadarene, any content to go with that smiley?

[Gadarene]

@Chronos

Gadarene, any content to go with that smiley?

Well…as scummy as I found Chip’s post, I still think Suburban would be a far better lynch today. Having three leading lynch candidates makes it easier for scum to muddy the waters, since it won’t take as many of them to keep a scum from getting lynched and it makes bandwagon/vote-switching behavior less obvious.

[Chipacabra]

@Chronos

Quoth Chipacabra:

Also, I think that if Ed is scum, there’s a good chance that Suburban Plankton also is. If Ed is town, that does not absolve Suburban.

That’s an argument for lynching Plankton instead of Ed, but you’re voting for Ed. And I don’t see any real connection between the cases on them: Could you spell it out?

Ed is the safer first lynch, because if Ed is telling the truth and we lynch him, we lose a VT. If Plankton is telling the truth and we lynch him, we lose an investigator. By that token, I’m willing to give Plankton a little time.

My thinking was if Ed is scum, he’s seen a VT role example and quite likely a cover story. So he knows a name that isn’t being used by the townies. So he slips it into the list of names, adding in a connection to the palantir to provide Plankton with a plausible cover. Basically, Ed being scum introduces the possibilty of him trying to rescue Plankton.

This isn’t a guaranteed scenario, just a plausible one, hence it’s not enough to nail in Plankton’s coffin, so I only said ‘good chance’.

And if Ed turns out town, then the whole scenario didn’t happen, which is basically just null for Plankton, since he could have gotten the cover name himself just as easily and added the palantir connection based on Ed’s list. So yes, Gadarene and Hoopy, it’s obvious that Plankton isn’t absolved if Ed is town. I say obvious things sometimes. That’s all.

[Chipacabra]

@peekercpa

the more i read that post the more it sounds like scum just playing it straight down the middle on a mislynch. now that certainly does not exonerate the other candidates, but let’s see if we get a leader under our belt. especially one that is playing on the low end of participation. kind of right where i would expect scum to try and hide.

Seriously? I’m low participation? That’s what you’re going with?

[peekercpa]

@Chipacabra

Ed is the safer first lynch, because if Ed is telling the truth and we lynch him, we lose a VT. If Plankton is telling the truth and we lynch him, we lose an investigator. By that token, I’m willing to give Plankton a little time.

My thinking was if Ed is scum, he’s seen a VT role example and quite likely a cover story. So he knows a name that isn’t being used by the townies. So he slips it into the list of names, adding in a connection to the palantir to provide Plankton with a plausible cover. Basically, Ed being scum introduces the possibilty of him trying to rescue Plankton.

in which post did ed link to the palantir?

[Gadarene]

@Chipacabra

My thinking was if Ed is scum, he’s seen a VT role example and quite likely a cover story. So he knows a name that isn’t being used by the townies. So he slips it into the list of names, adding in a connection to the palantir to provide Plankton with a plausible cover. Basically, Ed being scum introduces the possibilty of him trying to rescue Plankton.

Um, yeah, this isn’t what you said at all the first time around (as quoted in my response to you at #1006).

[Chipacabra]

@peekercpa

in which post did ed link to the palantir?

694, in his list of names he included a list of people who have held palantir.

[Chipacabra]

@Gadarene

@Chipacabra

My thinking was if Ed is scum, he’s seen a VT role example and quite likely a cover story. So he knows a name that isn’t being used by the townies. So he slips it into the list of names, adding in a connection to the palantir to provide Plankton with a plausible cover. Basically, Ed being scum introduces the possibilty of him trying to rescue Plankton.

Um, yeah, this isn’t what you said at all the first time around (as quoted in my response to you at #1006).

I know. Sometimes I don’t say obvious things, too, especially when it’s only obvious to my own twisty ways of thinking and not to everyone else. Sorry about that.

At the time that I had written that part of the post, I was still thinking of Ed as probably town. I hadn’t flipped yet. Keep in mind, I was going through the ENTIRE FREAKING THREAD IN ONE GO YOU WORDY BASTARDS.[/fakeanger] When I flipped to thinking of him as scum, I didn’t go back and edit that part of my post with my further thoughts. I should have, but at that point my brain wasn’t working in top gear anymore. I just wanted to get the post over and done with and I skipped a bunch of steps to put my conclusion out.

[Gadarene]

I still don’t really see the case for Ed as scum, but… shrug

[peekercpa]

thanks for the reference.

i’ve got it now. because of some connection with the palantir and denethor that makes ed scum, because of his connection with plank, right?

and i don’t think you have flipped yet. unless i missed something.

ok, i am posting this and then coming back.

[Chipacabra]

@peekercpa

thanks for the reference.

i’ve got it now. because of some connection with the palantir and denethor that makes ed scum, because of his connection with plank, right?

and i don’t think you have flipped yet. unless i missed something.

ok, i am posting this and then coming back.

No, that’s not why I think Ed is scum. I think Ed is scum primarily because of the ‘win condition’ trick question nonsense with Chronos, and because of the cries of lynch the loud when he wasn’t really being lynched and when the person being lynched wasn’t being loud.

The Ed plankton connection is that I believe that if Ed is scum, there are scenarios where Ed’s behavior is to try to protect another scum. From what I have seen of previous games, Ed is too good of a player to make an obvious attempt to rescue a fellow scum in trouble. But posting that role list put the idea of denethor = palantir out there, on the chance that it makes Plankton’s claim more credible.

The scenario does depend on Ed being scum. I believe that Ed is scum for other reasons, which is why I consider the scenario. That’s not the same as saying I believe Ed is scum BECAUSE I considered that scenario.

[special_ed]

@Gadarene

I still don’t really see the case for Ed as scum, but… shrug

You don’t? Just look at what Astral has said. Here are the points I failed to refute:

1. Chronos posted a win condition identical to mine, and I still thought he was Scummy

2. It’s possible that I’m 3rd party

3. My posting of the Vanilla Role PM provided no immediate assistance to Town
   Now, the points that I’ve refuted he still seems to think are valid last I checked:

4. Posting the Vanilla Role PM was another attempt to handshake. (I’m not sure why he thinks so, I doubt anyone else does)

5. I think he may have failed to understand that I was trying to provide Town information that there was but one Vanilla Role PM despite what someone (Telcontar maybe, I forget) was alleging as fact. Also, the information gained would not be immediate, but at some probable point in the future.

There were other points, like I was trying to prove I was Town by posting the Role PM and that I flip flopped back to thinking a handshake was valuable in this game. I’ve no idea where they came from, he really wasn’t able to substantiate those.

However, was it MHaye, who brought up that had I been Scum, with access to the Vanilla Role PM, then it might make sense for me to attempt a handshake. I can see some validity in that. Unlike what others have specualted, my attempt wouldn’t be to pull off the handshake ( mean, without some counter action taken by the moderators, it would never have been a confirmed handshake anyway.), but to out the Vanillas through my attempt. I wish I had been that smart as Scum. Needless to say, any future atempts I make at handshaking will not involve parts of the role PM that can only be found in the Vanilla PM.

So, Anyone who votes me for that reason, I really can’t counter. You only have my word that I erred in attempting my handshake and it ended up being anti-Town.

[special_ed]

@Chipacabra

No, that’s not why I think Ed is scum. I think Ed is scum primarily because of the ‘win condition’ trick question nonsense with Chronos, and because of the cries of lynch the loud when he wasn’t really being lynched and when the person being lynched wasn’t being loud.

Really? Let’s look at the vote count and compare it with the post Count, shall we?

Now, granted this is the entire post count for the thread, so it might be skewed a bit with players like Chip positng more recently than they had at that point.
Does it look like this data might support an accusation that we were tending toward ‘lynch the loud’?

**Posts/ Name/ Votes

** 167 Peeker (2):
147 SpecialEd(3):
110 Gadarene
72 Chronos (1)
53 Suburban(8):
53 Pleonast(2):
47 HoopyFrood
47 Astral(2):
44 Red Skeezix
26 Telcontar
25 Meeko
24 Chipacabra
21 USCDiver(2):
21 Cucuy
19 Guiri
18 MHaye
17 OneandOnly
16 Normal Phase/Inner Stickler
12 Drain Bead
11 Natlaw
9 Oredigger
8 NanooktheNorthShore
6 LittlePlasticNinja

[Mahaloth]

**Vote Count:

Suburban(8): Oredigger, Cucuy, Nanook, RedSkeezix, Gadarene, Specialed, Pleonast, Guiri

USCDiver(1): Drainbead,

Peeker(1): Natlaw

Astral(2): OneandOnly, USCDiver

Pleonast(1): Meeko,

SpecialEd(6): Astral, Chronos, Telcontar, MHaye, Suburban, Chipacabra

Chipacabra(2): Hoopy, Peeker**

[Gadarene]

Just want to make sure I understand here:

The case against Ed depends on scum being provided a copy of the vanilla role PM, correct? (Because otherwise, Ed would not have had access to one to (1) use as his handshake at the beginning and (2) post as his own later in the thread.)

This being the case, can someone explain to me why there wasn’t a whole lot more handshaking going on early? If scum both had a copy of the vanilla role PM and decided to use it to draw out vanillas at the outset (which is what people who think Ed is scum are necessarily claiming happened), then why did the attempt fizzle out so quickly? Did scum just, y’know, decide not to follow through on their plan?

[Chipacabra]

@special_ed

Does it look like this data might support an accusation that we were tending toward ‘lynch the loud’?

**Posts/ Name/ Votes

** 167 Peeker (2):
147 SpecialEd(3):
110 Gadarene
72 Chronos (1)
53 Suburban(8):
53 Pleonast(2):
47 HoopyFrood
47 Astral(2):
44 Red Skeezix
26 Telcontar
25 Meeko
24 Chipacabra
21 USCDiver(2):
21 Cucuy
19 Guiri
18 MHaye
17 OneandOnly
16 Normal Phase/Inner Stickler
12 Drain Bead
11 Natlaw
9 Oredigger
8 NanooktheNorthShore
6 LittlePlasticNinja

Um. No? Not really. Those numbers, combined with the actual vote justifications look like an attempt to obfuscate things. As a group, it looks more like lynch the slightly-above-mean-and-also-peeker.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@peekercpa

ok, let’s not make this easy.

unvote

vote chipa

the more i read that post the more it sounds like scum just playing it straight down the middle on a mislynch. now that certainly does not exonerate the other candidates, but let’s see if we get a leader under our belt. especially one that is playing on the low end of participation. kind of right where i would expect scum to try and hide.

This is a crappy vote. Your voting record in this game even more vacuous than your posting record. You announced a “vote for lurkers” strategy early on, which apparently justified your not taking a stand on anything. Then after taking your turn with both **ed **and I, you’re off on a completely different target? Take a stand, man!

Vote for ed. vote for me. I don’t care. Just express a opinion. What are you afraid of?

[Chipacabra]

@Gadarene

Just want to make sure I understand here:

The case against Ed depends on scum being provided a copy of the vanilla role PM, correct? (Because otherwise, Ed would not have had access to one to (1) use as his handshake at the beginning and (2) post as his own later in the thread.)

This being the case, can someone explain to me why there wasn’t a whole lot more handshaking going on early? If scum both had a copy of the vanilla role PM and decided to use it to draw out vanillas at the outset (which is what people who think Ed is scum are necessarily claiming happened), then why did the attempt fizzle out so quickly? Did scum just, y’know, decide not to follow through on their plan?

I don’t think Ed was trying to draw out VTs. I think he was trying to draw out power roles. I just hope there really is more than one phrasing for the VT condition, and that the discrepancies we saw weren’t our power roles waving big stab me flags.

[Gadarene]

@Chipacabra

@Gadarene

Just want to make sure I understand here:

The case against Ed depends on scum being provided a copy of the vanilla role PM, correct? (Because otherwise, Ed would not have had access to one to (1) use as his handshake at the beginning and (2) post as his own later in the thread.)

This being the case, can someone explain to me why there wasn’t a whole lot more handshaking going on early? If scum both had a copy of the vanilla role PM and decided to use it to draw out vanillas at the outset (which is what people who think Ed is scum are necessarily claiming happened), then why did the attempt fizzle out so quickly? Did scum just, y’know, decide not to follow through on their plan?

I don’t think Ed was trying to draw out VTs. I think he was trying to draw out power roles. I just hope there really is more than one phrasing for the VT condition, and that the discrepancies we saw weren’t our power roles waving big stab me flags.

What do you mean “VT condition”? As far as I know everyone who’s said anything about it has the same win condition, including Chronos, who’s a claimed power role.

(And we still have no one stepping up to claim a role PM that looks remotely like Suburban Plankton’s. Hmmm, I wonder why that could possibly be!)