What’s really bothering me about Chip is something that I haven’t seen anyone else bring up. In the last game, Chip was very forceful, very direct. Asked a lot of questions, poked, prodded, and just stirred the shit in general. It was good for Town, helped those early scum lynches right along. But in this game it’s radically different. Where’s the poking? The prodding? The cutting questions that get people talking? They aren’t there. New players changing styles so radically is often an indicator that their role has changed a lot. In this case, it leads me to believe Chip is scum, since in the last game he was Town.
** vote Chip **
And for the record, I followed that game since I liked Harry Potter. I thought Chip was Town from the start, even as people were piling on him.
I’m certainly not trying to do so. I may, however, be succeeding. I would certainly hope, though, that I’m also accomplishing other things, so I take some issue with just yanking your chain.
ok, school is starting. there has been some relatively enlightening discussion. scum are trenching down because to lose another this early would be very bad for them.
Well, I’d really like to defend myself, but my accusers make good points. I’d probably vote me, too, if I didn’t know I was town. I chose my words terribly, and it looks the price is my team will mislynch. Sorry, guys. At least you’re not lynching a power role.
As for my change in playstyle, I should think that at least is obvious. Last game, I was forceful and noisy, because no one else was. That wasn’t the case this game, was it? Also, I thought peeker was doing the prod the lurker routine, and two people doing it at the same time is just noise. It turned out he didn’t follow through on it, but by the time I noticed it was too late in the Day to do it.
Anyway. I don’t think my playstyle has changed nearly so much as the game I’m playing in has changed. Last game, once other people started talking, I quieted down.
Despite my vote, I think it’s entirely possible that you’ll end up flipping Town – particularly in light of what Guiri pointed out about your handshake attempt. (By way of comparison, I would’ve been shocked if Suburban had been anything other than scum.) I’m not sold on Ed, but if you want to suggest a different player who would be a better candidate than yourself, Chip, I’m happy to listen. Mislynching vanillas certainly isn’t the worst outcome in the world, but it’s far from the best, and I’d obviously like to avoid it if we can.
Apologies for no posts from me for quite a while - I did read up at some points but didn’t take the time to make some posts.
I haven’t looked to closely at scum since my vote Yesterday, so that where I’ll continue now, especially since we got this:
Why? There were some reasons mentioned why it might be a bad idea. Do you think they have changed?
To review my vote on peeker (odd poke vote for Nanook then ignoring it), if I remember correctly that eventually resulted in a ‘drat, unvote’.
Since then peeker votedSuburban Plankton for odd role PM and Denethor making a good scum (when SP was close to the tie), switches to Chipacabra for his special ed vote (SP has a couple of votes lead then) and later to OneAndOnly for a possible scum slip about letting live SP a Night.
Those votes definitely were better reasoned than the vote I voted peeker for, so I won’t replace my vote of Yesterday yet.
Peeker: you find Hoopy Frood was hegding his bet with the Chipa vote, but you did make the same vote yourself. What the difference between you to?
My last post was wrong, sorry. I do think **Telcontar **protected someone; I’m not so sure it was **Pleonast **(like I stated). I’d forgotten that **Plankton **was the one who’d claimed a sort of detective role in Denethor, attributing the detective to Pleonast. Screwed that up royally, hey? While we know that Pleo’s claimed a power role, we don’t know what that role is. If **Plankton **hadn’t been lynched, I think **Telcontar **would’ve protected him.
So, I’ve reread through the whole thing, and six hours later, here are some random thoughts based on my notes.
Pleonast, we get it that you don’t like Mahaloth’s “one vote only” policy. You’ve said it at least twice, in post #757 and #1410. Sorry, them’s the rules. I’m really not happy with your explanations of why you claimed a townie power role, as they boil down to “it’s a game I like to play with scum” and “to make scum do work.” (Posts #184 and #194.) It’s true, you said that I didn’t have to like your explanations. But those are the only ones you gave, and I don’t find them satisfactory. Your continued existance and your refusal to give town any more useful information doesn’t make you look very townie at this point.
Plankton’s post #1069 contained this interesting tidbit:
Is this scum outing scum? **Plankton **knows he’s scum; it seems to me he’s almost calling out **Chronos **as scum here too. Otherwise, why mention him? But certainly scum wouldn’t make that big a slip, right? Red Skeezix picked up on this too, in post #1071 - and Plankton never answered him.
Gadarene’s analysis of Plankton’s claim was masterful. And she doesn’t let us forget it: she mentions that she led the lynch bandwagon in post #1000, #1149, and #1301.
I’ve got “me too” votes for **Plankton **on Inner Stickler (#1091), Drain Bead (#1075), **Guiri **(#1009), and OneandOnly (#1097) - not a lot of reasoning added, although that’s likely due to Gadarene’s excellent analysis. It’d be easy for scum to hide behind that, even though it *was *outstanding.
Two vote analyses (Guiri’s in #1037 and **Hoopy’**s in #1296) do a pretty good job in showing **Chipacabra **as scum trying to protect **Plankton **by vote switching. IMO, Hoopy’s defends **Skeezix **and Drain Bead as town while Guiri’s smudges **Hoopy **in addition to Chip.
So, where does that leave me? Chronos, I admit that I’m pretty swayed by Plankton’s wording in #1069. Do you have anything to say about this?
Pleo, I’m not inclined to think you’re town, regardless whether “that’s how you always play.” Make with the info, dude.
Chip, oy. Of these three, you look the most scummy right now. Although admittedly bad play, I’m really not seeing the anti-town motivations behind Ed’s actions. But your voting record pretty clearly shows some scum protection going on. And your reasoning that Ed’s scum because he posted the list including Denethor as a palantir holder for Plankton’s later use isreally weak (#1032). You also haven’t told us the “lots of reasons” that no one’s posted anything that matches Plankton’s claim, other than the very obvious (#1042). Then you hide behind a “swapping words” defense and different role PMs based on handshakes as reasoning that there might be more than one VT PM (#1093). (I don’t think anyone thinks there’s more than one VT PM, really.) Do you have answers for these?
I have a meta-game question. I have a vague memory from Harry Potter that the Vanilla PM and cover roles were not handed out to the Scum team until Night 1. Of course those scum boards are now closed, but does anyone else remember that for a fact? It seemed to me that there were only three cover roles given out because by that time there were only three Scum remaining. I seem to remember the Night 0 conversation there being meet-and-greet only and no scum strategy discussion. This would certainly make a big difference in this game if that were the case.
I would say, quite to the contrary, that it’s noise if only one person does it. With just one person lurker-prodding, the lurker is in no danger of actually getting lynched, and so can just remain quiet. It’s not until you have at least two or more likely three people voting for lurkers, and voting the same lurker, that it’s a real threat.
Quoth Snickers:
Well, I don’t know anything about Plankton’s actual motivations, but at a guess: He was of course trying to pass as Town, and so was behaving as though he didn’t know what side I’m on. It looks to me like he’s just saying that Hoopy is being active and aggressive, and that he’s (pretending to) give him credit for that. But I don’t know; maybe he was just picking people at random to focus on, or maybe he was trying to set me up for a frame in case he went down, or maybe he was inclined to like anyone going after someone he knew to be Town, or maybe Hoopy is Scum, too, and he was looking for things to praise him for, or maybe he had some completely different reason for that that I can’t even guess at.
I understood that there being less cover roles than actual Scum was a deliberate design choice, intended to make the game more interesting. Omi didn’t get a polyjuice reveal because she was chosen to be the one without a cover role (logical, her being the mere goon), not because they hadn’t been handed out yet.
Specifically? Exactly? Again? Arg. You’re going to make me review all 9 billion freaking pages again.
Short version: At the time of the handshaking attempt, Ed looked like town making an unsuccessful gambit.
Around the time that SP made his investigator claim, I pulled my vote because I still think leaving a vote for a claimed investigator without careful consideration is, well, kind of dumb. So I went back and reviewed, and Ed didn’t hold up to me.
Ed made it clear that he has read a VT role message. This makes him either VT, or a scum with access to the VT pm. His behavior since then has not struck me as being vanilla. In particular, I hear a lot of the protesteth-too-much that twigged me to Red Skeevix in the last game (which, if you’ll remember, I was right about. For all that’s worth; I wasn’t right about much else that game.)
For example, the interaction with Chronos. Chronos made a statement that made it perfectly clear to Ed that Chronos had the same, or nearly the same, pm that he did. Ed had no business pulling that ‘hah tricked you there’s no victory condition section’ nonsense. Ed had his confirmation and threw an aspersion at Chronos anyway? At the time, I didn’t think anything of it, but after seeing how all the handshaking business played out, I can’t read it as anything other than a scum move.
FWIW, I still don’t think lynching SP first was the best move. I mean, I’m glad it worked out, but that’s results oriented thinking and that gets you broke in poker.
Here was my thinking on SP, since again what’s obvious to me isn’t obvious to anyone else. He was my first vote because of his self-preservation comments. His behavior pretty much all Day was not VT behavior. He claimed around the time I was doing my review, so I pulled my vote to be safe, thinking I could just put it back on if it didn’t hold up. During the review, his behavior seemed like it could be consistent either with being scum or being a clumsy investigator. Since I couldn’t be sure which way to go, I decided to leave my vote off of him; we could always lynch him toMorrow if he didn’t produce the goods. And by then, I’d already switched my opinion of Ed, which probably tunnel-visioned me from seeing the flaws in SP’s claim format.
As for my if-ed-then-sp “waffling?” Fuck if I even remember the exact logic now, really. The game has moved on, I can’t get myself back into the same state of mind where that seemed like the obvious thing. Yeah, that’s not helpful. Sorry. I’m annoyed with past self for even having said it.
Gadarene: Another player? I don’t really have a strong scum ping on anyone else, and I’m not willing to drum up an undirected witch hunt to save my own hide. I’ve pretty much got no read either way on Astral. Probably my next suspicion is Peeker, because he’s made a lot of noise and stirred up a lot of shit, but he hasn’t actually made a stand or followed through on any of it. Pleo… I don’t even know. He can’t be ignored, but I don’t know what to do with him. But I don’t have a strong scum ping in either case, and trying to sic you on one of them just to save me doesn’t seem like a play with strong odds.
That being said, there’s probably scum in the people voting for me, but that doesn’t mean much of anything until I’ve been proven town, i.e. lynched.
I hate to have to admit it but Night 0 was a but of a disaster for scum. Mahaloth’s opening post said “no powers, no kills” and, being my first time as scum, I interpreted that as we were not allowed to share our powers. Inner Stickler even asked if we were allowed to talk strategy but he got no response. As it turned out, we didn’t discuss or distribute the three cover roles (or our actual powers - which lead me to blindly bus Omi and gain 0 town credit for it) and so Mahaloth couldn’t do a proper “reveal” for Omi - leading to some confusion later on. On Night 1 our first task, set by Mahaloth, was to decide who would use which cover and, as there just happened to be three of us left, we chose one each.
For the record, I don’t think Meeko was fishing when he asked Pleonast to post what he did last Night, but more taking the bait Pleonast is hanging out :).
But this reasoning that Pleonast must have been protected and didn’t die and therefore he must spill the beans doesn’t make much sense to me:
Twenty other players didn’t die. If Pleonast actually was protected, maybe even from a kill, why should he make a full claim now?
(on preview I see you don’t think it as likely that Pleonast was protected)
I repeated this part of the quote because I think it’s actually the first time it is said out in the open. Telcontar claimed Yesterday ‘there must be different vanilla PM, that’s why the handshake failed’.
For special ed: Yesterday you said a couple of times that you were suspicious of people claiming there are different worded vanilla PMs (I think I repeated it at one point). But are you actually suspicious or were just trying to plant the idea that Telcontar wasn’t a power role because you were suspicious of him for believing there were different PMs?
If the first, why be suspicious of the people who said ‘must be different PM, no power roles found here, move along’ instead of the ones who went ‘failed to handshake, lets ignore that scum might fail and vote else where’.
Everyone was keeping the fact that power role were possibly outed under the lid, so why cast suspicion on the first group?
It’s he, and damn straight. Although it’s not like I was randomly bragging – post #1000 was a sincere response to Telcontar’s question, which may have been pointed only because I knew Telcontar didn’t trust me and I wanted to change that; post #1149 was mostly nervous energy; and post #1301 was a reaction to peeker’s implied criticism of me for making “safe choices.”
I mean, if you’re suggesting it was a bus on my part, then you’re entitled to your opinion, but people were unvoting Suburban Plankton left and right at that point in light of his/her roleclaim, and I don’t think it’s exaggerating to say that Suburban almost certainly would have escaped a lynch if I hadn’t raised the points I did. If I’m scum, I’m not very good at it.
Although it’s not like I was randomly bragging – post