Losin' My Religion (Or My Church, At Any Rate)

I touched on this over in the Pit, so I’d better put it out here. I went on my church’s women’s retreat this past weekend. Religious fanatic that I am, I like the idea of taking 24 hours of my life and giving them to God, and, since I’m unemployed right now, I particularly needed the spiritual guidance. Besides, the retreat was up in the mountains of southwest Pennsylvania and the leaves are just starting to turn, so the setting was gorgeous!

Here’s the problem. Even though I moved about 15 miles away over a year ago, I kept going to my old church because it’s the one I grew up in and I was needed there. Even after I moved, they asked me to stay and I did because I liked the priest and because they supported me through a rough adolescence. Due to misunderstanding, miscommunication, and other factors I’m not entirely sure I understand, my church has, in effect, fired my priest. September 29th was his last Sunday. He wasn’t the greatest priest, and I Pitted him myself several months ago, but he’s a good man who genuinely tried to do the right thing. He’s not good with people as a rule, but I’ve found him and his wife to be good friends and counselors, once you get past his surface shyness. I’ve confronted him about issues a time or two, but we’ve stayed friends. Apparently others have prefered to speak to other people about him rather than talk to him directly. The other factor is this church of mine is in a nice, suburban, upper-middle class parish which thinks it’s Lake Woebegone. I’m one of 2 people in it who’ve never married and the only woman who never has. It doesn’t fit me well, but, like I said, I’ve stayed out of loyalty.

To get back to the retreat, the theme of it was “A Fresh Brewed Life”, a rather cutesy coffee theme about inviting God into our souls and waking up to Him. Not to sound like I’m boasting, but I did do that a while ago, and He’s quite definitely taken me up on the invitation. In fact, sometimes I’ve been known to call Him a busy-body! :wink: I’m also not a coffee drinker, but that’s not really relevant. I still was out to make the best of things, so at dawn on Saturday, I took myself off up the mountain and prayed. FTR, it can be dangerous asking a Deity to show you what you need to do and what you need to learn! As the morning progressed, I found myself defending Wiccans at one point, then moved on to the second period of meditation, or, at least that’s what I thought it was. I took myself off, considered the questions, and prayed again. I came back to find no one else had left the room and that the rest of the women were discussing home remodeling! Admittedly in the context of it being one of the trivialities which keep us from God, but still!! :confused: So, I prayed some more (it was a retreat, after all), and left early to visit a couple of wise, caring, thinking friends who happen to be Wiccan.

The story gets even longer, including some stuff about wondering whether my fears about not being able to find a new job are indicative of a lack of faith not to mention doing major work on my psyche, but I’ll leave that stuff off. Two months ago, I lost my job. Six weeks ago, these two friends I mentioned told me they’re moving 600 miles away (I was also helping them pack). This weekend, I realized it’s time for me to leave the church I’ve been relying on. I’m not sure what I’m going to lose next. Of course, when I came on to check the SDMB and I would choose to read a thread about His4Ever over in the Pit which just made things worse.

I’m staying Christian, and I’m staying Episcopalian specifically, but right now, the Wiccans are acting better than the Christians. I’ve lost something important to me. Now that my priest has been fired, I’ve lost someone important to me. Faith does remain, and the light does shine in the darkness, but it’s feeling a bit dim right now.

So, can anyone recommend a good Episcopalian church in Pittsburgh? No? Can I ask for some of that famous Doper compassion then? Yes, just thinking of names such as Polycarp, Tomndebb, Guinastasia, Jodi, Monty, and other Board Christians too numerous to mention is comforting, not to mention ultrafilter, Eve, and the rest of you guys.

CJ
“Oh no, I’ve said too much. I haven’t said enough.”
Losin’ My Religion, R.E.M.

Sorry to hear you’re going through this, but it sounds like something you need to do. Unfortunately, I can’t help you find a church–I think you’re mostly on your own there–but I wish you the best of luck. Funny thing is, you’d make a great Unitarian, but most Unitarian churches wouldn’t like you because you’re Christian. This is one of my major issues with the Unitarian church, at least as I have experienced it.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight, don’t let the bastards get you down, don’t let the bedbugs bite, etc., etc. We’ll all be around for you.

Sorry you’re going through this. You’re lucky to have friends like the ones you describe. Remember, there’s nothing stopping you from being both Wiccan AND Christian.

I can’t help you find a church, but I’ll keep you in my prayers. Good luck, and keep us posted!

cj - If I counted the number of times a parish council meeting turned to the trivial, or the times in personal prayer I couldn’t turn my mind from my financial difficulties (or work-related stuff, or family stuff) and back to God, I’d never get back to prayer. I left the parish I’d been a member of since I moved to Nashville for reasons unrelated to the Church. I found my new priest on a message board, as it happens. We were both fans of the first few seasons of Buffy and met at the Bronze, the official postingboard at the time. He has been my spiritual director for the last 5 years. I now attend Mass at a different parish. I’ve found a good confessor (I don’t know if Episcopalians confess).

I guess what I’m trying to say is that your faith in your church needs to be bigger than your fellow parishoners being petty, bigger than your parish problems. Your faith is your home.

I hope things heal for you soon.

StG

cj -

Sorry you’ve had such a bad experience. I’m glad you’re not giving up on the Church totally, and I hope you can find one that is open and loving to you and offers you opportunities for increased discipleship and meaningful worship - as well as significant relationships with other people.

I go to an amazing Episcopal church, which unfortunately is nowhere near Pittsburgh. However, our Asst. Rector went to seminary in that area. I’ll see if I can get a recommendation from him for you.

Good luck & God bless

Don’t quite know how to advise you, but big sympathy from a fellow Christian here. Hang in there, whatever you decide.

I wish you were in Topeka. I grew up Missouri-Synod Lutheran, very conservative, traded to the more liberal Lutherans, and then, after conflicts with the pastor, explored other churches and became Episcopalian. Some differences, nothing important, and I’d been around them before. One congregation here in Topeka was an early special target of Fred Phelps, and I helped them hold their own signs contesting his. And I attended Episcopalian services while in the Army, as one of the chaplains held them in addition the regular Protestant worship. The congregation I belong to now is wonderful and I wish I could beam it over to Pittsburgh. I will name you in our prayers this Sunday(by username, I don’t know your name IRL), and ask God to guide you to a new spiritual home. It’s there, you know, the place God has prepared. As our Dean said, concerning the process our diocese is going through to choose a new bishop “God has already chosen, it’s up to us to figure out what the choice is.”

CJ -

Remember:

There is a profound difference between religion and spirituality - the structure of a church may not always be compatible with the needs of your soul.

Take care of your soul - then you can worry about rituals and social groups.

[sub]p.s. - from what I can see, pagans have much more fun[/sub]

I hope you’ll find the church that’s right for you.

There’s something to be said for the parish system. You might check out the Episcopal church geographically nearest to where you live, and make a point of trying to like it.

The old system bound people of all walks of life together geographically, all different kinds of Chrisitans (within the denomination) who just happened to live nearest to the particular church. You went to your parish, and that was that. There was none of this shopping around for the church that best suited your temperament and tastes.

Come to think of it, this is exactly what I need to do myself. I think I’ll figure out what’s nearest to me and at least give it a shot.

Hang in there, baby.

cjhoworth, I simply marvel at the way your faith integrates into your life, and your refreshing honesty about such right now.

That having been said, I loved hearing about your retreat. It reminds me of the time a friend and I decided to go hit a Christian retreat and I’m still in awe of what God showed me then. (Granted, the setting wasn’t so serene – it was behind a gas station somewhere in northern Arizona during the middle of the day!) I came back to the retreat gathering point in awe, only to go home and being nagged the whole drive back about how I needed to find Jesus to solve my problems and how I was missing out by not reading the entirety of the recommended retreat meditation passage. I would really have liked to run into some friendly person(s) of any sort of religious belief/non-belief right then!

I’m another person who knows basically nothing of Episcopalian churches in Pennsylvania, but I shall be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers!

Changing churches can be a heck of a wrench, especially in the sort of circumstances you describe… a good church is a community, almost by definition, and having to walk away from it hurts.

Best I can do is second masonite’s advice, and hope your new “local” is a welcoming one. And, of course, remember you in my prayers.

cj If you’re looking for a different retreat situation, the monks at Gethsemani have a retreat house. I don’t believe that you are required to be Catholic. It’s not a perky “Wake up with God!” type of thing. Here is a description:

There is no set cost for this, although the monastery leaves an envelope in your room. Put in it what you will, they don’t ask what you’re giving. The retreats last from Monday to Friday or from Friday to Monday.

StG
StG

Hey, I’m a big fat ol’ atheist—but I’ll still be happy to offer any compassion I can. Plus, a cup of decaffeinated (non-Christian) coffee.

** cjhoworth** - I too cannot offer advice on a good church, both because I am hundreds of miles away, and also ‘cause like Eve said, "I’m a big fat ol’ atheist" :smiley:

All I will say is that if you pursue your goals honestly and with love in your heart, you will be just fine.

Mars

Ouch. Moving out of a church hurts. Remember, the Body of Christ continues in spite of the people in it, not because of them. Sigh. I’m having problems with my family church too.

Good luck, and I’ll pray. Don’t give up on Episcopalians quite yet, and do church-hop.

What!? Most Unitarian Churches are more nominally Christian than any other faith. Now if you’re one of those holier-than-thou, “only my flavor of Christian is going to heaven” types, then you’ll have a problem with Unitarians [sub](Which I know you’re not, cj)[/sub]. But Christians in general are not disliked.

And I think happyheathen, believe it or not, touched on the most important aspect of the situation. Religion is not the same as Spirituality. In far too many cases, Religion is the enemy of Spirituality.

You must have experience with different UU churches from me. All of the ones I’ve heard about have strong anti-Christian tendencies, mainly cause a lot of the members are recent escapees from unpleasant situations with Christian overtones.

I am not Christian but I can sympathize with your eclesiastical problems. I also am not Wiccan but I typically worship with Wiccan friends because they are more than willing to include me. Within the group there is a former defrocked Eastern Orthodox Priest now a practicing Wiccan, a Ptolemic/eclectic astrologer (I don’t really know why Ptolemic is important to him but he brings it up often), a transgendered woman (former man) who worships nature, and a wide assortment of Wiccan men and women of various paths some being born into the craft others not. Myself, I am an animist druid if it makes a difference. One of the previous members joined the Catholic Church, as a nun. She still comes to worship with us when we get together; however, it is less frequent as her nunly duties keep her pretty busy.

Anyway, I bring this up for a few reasons. One is to show you that you can be a Christian and Wiccan. Christianity may disdain it but Wicca holds no judgement. I also bring it up because the pettiness getting to you may be your deitie’s way of telling you that you should get away from the pettiness and do some of your own soul searching for what you deem to be the truth. Let your soul become your individual temple and take it within yourself to be who, why and what your deity created you. Invariably, this is how the Wiccan group I currently belong to functions and the same as every pagan group I have had the pleasure (sometimes displeasure) of working with. The divine light doesn’t want you to be unhappy, so there is no reason to prolong your own unhappiness in a situation that slowly seems to be driving you away from it.

As others have said, you should have a feeling of community when you go to church – maybe even a sense of family. It’s clear that over the years, either you or the congregations has changed enough that you now feel like an outsider. That’s sad, but it happened to Mrs. Kunilou and I and we moved on.

There are many different types of congregations within a single denomination. Some emphasize fellowship, others revolve around the minister. A few manage to do both. I would encourage you to find a congregation that fits you first, and then ask yourself if you share enough doctrine with the denomination to be comfortable in your conscience.