LOTR: Did the Balrogs enter Middle Earth as monstrous demons?

Correct me if I am wrong:

As Maiar (like Gandalf) entered Middle Earth they took a form. Once taken that was it. Only Melkor was able to bounce between forms and even he didn’t do it too often.

But, presumably, the Maiar that became Balrogs didn’t enter Middle Earth as such (or did they?). They were later corrupted by Melkor.

So, did Melkor corrupt some Maiar prior to entering Middle Earth (such that they were Balrogs from the moment they entered Middle Earth) or was he able to change those he brought to his side?

Sauron was more of a shape changer than Morgoth. Several others were also.

The Balrogs are tricky, they were fire spirits :fire: to start with. They might of been a different order than the Maiar.

There could have been as few as 7 or hundreds. That is uncertain.

As I recall, Morgoth called them from beyond the world to assist him.

I am probably wrong but I always had the feeling that everyone except Melkor entered ME on the good side and then Melkor managed to corrupt things. He’s the source of all the bad stuff.

In the Silmarillion we learn everyone is singing nicely but it is Melkor alone providing the discordant music when the world is created. We are never led to believe there are other “bad” spirits. It is only later that Melkor corrupts some.

As one notable example, Ungoliant’s origin is unknown, even to the Valar, but it does not seem that she was corrupted or led astray by Melkor – she seems to have been pretty much bad from the start, even before Melkor recruited her to aid him in destroying the Trees.

But more importantly, did they have wings? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Maybe the Balrogs and Ungoliant originated in the void. From the same wiki that Kenobi linked to it says:

“It is believed that many creatures originated in the Void due to the discords in the Music of the Ainur caused by Melkor.”

Of course. Wings of a butterfly. Stinger of a bee.

For shame, WE; you mods are supposed to set a good grammatical example for the rest of us!

Sorry, middle of the night and on my phone. Besides, my grammar is fairly terrible.

Don’t sweat it. Of as a verb is fine (if informal).

The Valar and Maiar are spirits with the ability to cloth themselves in phyical form if they so choose to. So you see Sauron’s shapeshifting battle with Huan in the 1st age; you read about Orlorn’s unseen movement past the Eldar that visited the gardens in Valinor.

There does seem to be some association between the form and the “kind” of spirit it is.

So Balrogs, as spirits of fire, could wrap themselves in all sorts of appearances but tended to flame, smoke and heat. Perhaps some did have wings, some looked like they had wings and others had no wings at all.

You do see some of these spirits become fixed into their forms - Melkor/Morgoth most obviously. Sauron is restricted in what form he can choose.

Hope it’s not too unrelated, but I’ve always wondered what “fair” really meant. It’s said that Sauron was prevented from taking any fair form. Who decides? My fanwank is that he could no longer look human(oid) and had to take some primordial form of pure (and terrifying, even if it was a good maiar) energy.

Keep in mind that “Middle Earth” is not the World; it’s only one continent in the World. When Olorin came to Middle Earth and took on the form of Gandalf, he was coming from elsewhere in the created World.

And I’m pretty sure that the Balrogs were already demonic in form even before that continent, per se, existed. They came into the World as unembodied spirits, like all of the Ainur, and took forms as convenient, and in part due to their evil natures, ended up locked into forms. There might even have been a time when they were in that demonic form purely by choice, when they could have taken on other forms if they wanted, but they didn’t want to.

Re: shapeshifting. Both Morgoth and Sauron kept losing parts of their power, as they invested it in creating evil things, corrupting good things, and fighting with good beings. One of the powers they lost over time was shape-shifting. Sauron, for example, lost the ability to appear in “fair” form (I think it means pleasing or non-threatening) after he was “killed” on Numenor near the end of the 2nd Age. Before that, even after he had been defeated and captured by the Numenoreans, he had been able to appear non-threatening enough to corrupt the king and many of the other Numenoreans. Way before that, he had been able to appear fair enough to fool Celebrimbor into creating most of the rings of power with him, thereby putting them under his (Sauron’s) control [exception, the three Elven rings].

As for the balrogs, I am convinced that they were not part of the original song that created Arda. Probably/maybe they were from the same void where Morgoth was later sent to by the Valar, summoned forth by Morgoth (which probably cost him some of his own power). So in my opinion they probably came in shapes suitable for their natures, and didn’t need to be morphed into anything worse.

In several places though, Tolkien stares that Balrogs are Maia’s, not the least in this quote from The Silmarillion…

“For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into the darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valarauko, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror.”

“And in Utumno he gathered his demons about him, those spirits who first adhered to him in the days of his splendour, and became most like him in his corruption: their hearts were of fire, but they were cloaked in darkness, and terror went before them; they had whips of flame. Balrogs they were named in Middle-earth in later days.”

My personal theory, not based on anything more than feels (I am in no way a Tolkien expert), is that Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant are two sides of the same coin. When the world was created there was a nexus of “good” and a nexus of “evil”. Bombadil and Ungoliant were the embodiment of those two opposites.

Like in the movie “The Matrix” where the AI can never quite balance the equation so it is left with a remainder which becomes embodied in Neo (and, presumably, Agent Smith is the flip-side/opposite). It is not a design feature. It is, rather, an unavoidable outcome of the design.

Ungoliant is basically the embodiment of Darkness, how she fits in with the Valar & Maiar is never stated. Though it is mentioned the Valar themselves don’t know.

Tom Bombadil is an even bigger enigma. But he was inspired by the Professor’s daughter’s doll.

FWIW and to be clear…I realize Tolkien never explained these characters well and everything I said in the post before yours is just my view of it and has absolutely no basis in the official lore.

I’m just trying to fill in some gaps on my own because it is fun.

I think in some cases there are spirit loci like Caradhras. It manifested as a malevolent spirit harassing those trying to pass.

Goldberry the River-daughter was basically Fae. Some very minor figure like a very lesser Maia. She was effectively a Naiad.

Old Man Willow was yet another.

Tom was stronger though, a lot stronger it seemed. He grokked the world was created in song and thus had some very strong powers.


Then there were the intelligent Great Eagles that we know were servants of Manwë.

But we don’t know why Ravens and at least some Thrushes were intelligent and with language. Or that fox in the Shire that was sentient and curious about Hobbits camping out. But Old Bill the Pony was just a smart equine.


We saw hints of more, but only hints.

Don’t forget the stone-giants in the Misty Mountains.

This guy says that the Balrogs firmly did not have wings, for what it’s worth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC7ckGiCd3I