I’ve only just started rereading the Silmarillion, so perhaps my confusion on this will clear up on its own. But…given that, as Noldor, she’s prohibited by divine fiat from going back to Valinor…how exactly is she going to Go West?
alright thanks for all that stuff it helps… but also i had another question. Shouldnt the movie have shown a little about Aragorns sword Narsil?? i know they kind of did like they built it up as an important sword but then they didnt say anything about it after that. they didnt say that it was reforged or anything, and to me i think the sword is jus kinda an important thing to have. what ya think??
Círdan and his folk in the Grey Havens (Mithlond) remain to build ships to ferry Middle-Earth-weary Elves to the West for all of the Third Age. They do so till sometime in the Fourth Age, when the old Ship-wright himself sails off.
The Ban of the Noldor is lifted around the end of the Second Age, so they were able to leave Middle Earth.
Galadriel’s ban is lifted at the end of the Third Age, due to good behaviour and endless opposition to Sauron (for nearly 7000 years). She sails West with many of the protagonists of the Third Age - perhaps only Gandalf approaching her stature and class.
I was going off memory, which is apparently faulty, since a little research has shown that Vilya was given to Elrond at the time of the founding of Imladris, which was in 1697 of the Second Age. So it looks like the big “E” had had Vilya for almost 2000 years at the Siege of Barad-dur. Ooopsie.
Narsil/Anduril
The reforging of Narsil has almost certainly been postponed until The Two Towers, to give Arwen some screen time prior to the battle of Helm’s Deep. Y’know,“Hi honey, here’s your banner, and sword.” Kiss, kiss, “Enjoy the Paths of the Dead, and I’ll see you again when you claim your kingdom.” So Aragon can do some serious orc-chopping with the Flame of the West.
The character of Galadriel is purposefully ambiguous in both the books and the movie- she is very powerful and very old, and therefore wisdom has come to her through experience. But she can also be selfish, ruthless, and prideful.
Her refusal of the Ring was a major test for her; her entire identity was decided that very moment. If you read The Silmarillion and some of Tolkien’s notes and letters, you learn that Galadriel has always wanted power and glory- her refusal of the Ring decided, after endless years, who she truly was: a wise and good woman, not the power-hungry witch many thought her to be.
But she’s not happy with Frodo & Co. showing up in Lorien- she says as much in the movie, although I can’t find my books to check right now, she may give that impression there as well. All the elves are immortal- they can die in battle, or waste away from grief or starvation, but they are immune to all disease, and they do not age. Instead, they’re sort of stuck watching everything around them change while they themselves do not. Consequently, they’ve become obsessed with trying to keep things just the way they are. Frodo showing up with the Ring puts a major cramp on her style- things are changing, and fast, and the elves have to deal with it. So she’s not exactly thrilled to see all this going down in her woods.
The help she gives them is also sort of negligible, except for the light of Earendil she gives Frodo, which will figure back into the plot at some point. She lets them rest for a while, and then sends them on their way. She also gives a few vague hints as to what might happen in the future, but that’s all. She can’t really do much else- all her power is being used to defend Lorien from both Sauron’s encroaching shadow and the ravages of time which the elves seem almost to fear. (This speaks volumes for the power of both of these enemies.)
She’s resigned to her fate, and the fate of the elves. She’s sad about leaving Middle Earth, sad that it is the end of the world as she knows it, and also probably a little bitter that all her past work has come to this. She’d like to help out, really, but her hands are sort of tied. So she lends what she can, and sits back to watch the outcome. Other than that, she adopts a distinctly FUBISO attitude.
Patience, patience. The Two Towers will be released in December.
Consider this. Orcs are said to be corupted elves (stated, IIRC, somewhere in the Silmarillion, which I last read about 15 years ago, so I’m probably wrong). So, like elves they are immortals, who are immune to disease and time, can only be killed and can return to Middle Earth to live again… and again and again and again. For some, it would mean 7,000 years of fighting and dying for Morgoth’s/Sauron’s cause. A fate not only worse than but including lots of death.
It perhaps explains Gandalf’s comment about having sympathy even for Sauron’s creatures.
Yeah, Bubba Ray. Sheesh! You even have to ask?
As for the OP, both times I’ve read the book, I went away with the impression that Galadriel was more than a little on the creepy side. Beautiful, natch, but not somebody you’d exactly feel comfortable talking to. I thought that the mind-reading scene in the movie was particularly well-done; it conveyed the idea from the book that the experience was genuinely unsettling for everybody.
And I think that the “effects shots” that others are going on about – Galadriel’s temptation with the ring, Bilbo’s demanding the ring back, and Gandalf’s scaring Bilbo into giving him the ring – were completely appropriate and nicely done, not “mis-steps” at all. These are all pivotal moments in a very wordy book; the movie’s job is to translate these types of moments into visceral experiences. Even though I’d recently read the book and knew exactly when each of those scenes was going to happen, they still all managed to startle me. That’s why the movie works so well; they knew what to over-play, where to use their effects, and when to do things the “old-fashioned” way.
Actually, having just seen the DVD last night, I’d have to say the most convincing ‘temptation’ scene had no effects at all.
Bilbo drops the ring in his foyer and leaves.
Gandalf stares at it and thinks about taking it.
Tempus fugit.
Frodo shows up. Gandalf is sitting in the parlor staring at the fire while the Ring is still where Bilbo dropped it.
That had to be the longest time interval (minute? hour? night?) in Gandalf’s entire life. The Ring is there. He can take it. And he has the discipline to force himself not to. How many could have withstood that? Elrond? Galadriel? We already know that Sauron and the bad guys would have taken it without a second thought.
Seriously, could any of the other beings of power have withstood that temptation?
Quoth Smapti:
They don’t die of old age or disease, but they can be slain by any of the same ways as humans or by grief, whereupon they go to Mandos. There’s no set amount of time before they can come back, but it’s longer for some than for others (it’s hinted that Feanor won’t come back until just before the End). Glorfindel is just an example of this happening in the “ordinary” way: Once a reincarnated elf reaches maturity, he or she has both sets of memories and experiences. Luthien, however, is a special case: She and Beren were able to come back because she pleaded specifically to Mandos, and she alone of all creatures who ever lived was able to move him. Furthermore, when she came back, it was (for all practical purposes) as a human, that she might share the fate (whatever it is) of Beren.
Galadriel’s exile was lifted at the same time as that of all the other Noldor, at the end of the First Age, but she was too proud to accept it. It’s not that the Valar are rewarding her for her good works; she’s rewarding herself for her humility. In fact, I’m not even certain that she was ever exiled in the first place, except by her pride: The ban was on those who took up the Oath of Feanor and committed the Kinslaying, and Galadriel did neither.
As to the movie: I, personally, liked the scene with Gandalf being intimidating and Bilbo demanding the Ring, but Galadriel’s temptation scene was just over the top. Something like what they did with Gandalf would have worked much better, without the need for a green filter and form-fitting leather body armor.
Yeah, another vote for the Galadriel scene being over the top. To me, something more subtle would have been much more powerful. The special effects just made her seem sort of cartoony-scary, if you know what I mean. If her power had been shown more by acting, facial expressions, repressed power, Frodo breaking out in a quiet sweat when he feels the power of her mind and what she could do if she decided to. Now that would have been much more affecting. At least for me.
But what I really want to know is: where the hell’s Quadgop?
Interesting point Jonathan Chance. I’ve never really thought about Gandalf waiting there with the Ring. Perhaps Elrond could have resisted the temptation to take the Ring (I don’t remember him being overly tempted to keep it when it got to Rivendell), but I think Galadriel would have either had to leave, or give in to the temptation.
Since we’re kind of on the topic of over the top effects, I wanted to mention one I thought was very subtle. In the same scene you mention, when Bilbo drops the Ring on the floor, it seemed to me that the Ring is almost sticking to his hand, like it doesn’t want to be let go. Then, when the ring hits the floor, it doesn’t bounce at all, but just sticks there as if it had been dropped in mud, not on a stone floor. Just small details that reinforce the fact that this Ring is not ordinary.
[slight hijack]
When Saruman and Gandalf are battling things out (after Saruman slams all the doors on G) - I’m always puzzled by Gandalf spinning on his head. It looks so stupid to me because his hair is stiff instead of moving around. I thought it was not well done at all.
[/slight hijack]
I couldn’t remember much from the books and so I wasn’t sure if Galadriel was sorta creepy like that. I think the movie must have done a good job because it sounds like her character is very much like that.
Tibs.
Galadriel’s line in the movie is directly from the book – “Your coming to us is as the footsteps of Doom.” (I just re-read FOTR last week, for the first time in several years). She knows that her world is over either way–if Frodo fails, Sauron gets the ring, and all the works and thoughts of the elven ring bearers is revealed to him. If Frodo succeeds, the elven rings lose their power, and everything she’s created starts to fall apart.
FUBISO? ??
Future movie trivia question: In what film does Cate Blanchett (b. 1969) play the grandmother of Liv Tyler (b. 1977)?
It definitely sticks to Bilbo’s hand momentarily and makes a resounding THUD as it lands on the floor. I’m pretty sure it makes a heavy sound when Frodo puts it down at the Council of Elrond too.
Going full circle back to the Lady of Lorien… did anyone else notice that the water from Galadriel’s ewer seems to wait a moment before pouring? It’s like she tips it to the point it should pour, and then the water waits a heartbeat before beginning. Spooky. :eek:
I have to add another “too much green filter” vote, though I thought (after re-reading) that the towering image of her – armoured, beautiful and terrifying – was pretty accurate.
Galadriel’s not scary, you guys are :eek: Is this kinda like a trekkie convention?
:snicker:
man I’m late, I gotta dungeons & dragons party to goto, see ya’ later
Luthien Tinuviel, becomes the wife of Beren, and chooses to become mortal, thus forgoing Mandos, and gaining the Gift of Men, which is to die, and leave circle of the world entirely. So, for all the elves, she was the one who was truly lost to them. Now the same choice comes to Arwen, Evenstar of her people, and like an image of her foremother, Luthien. So the sorrow of Elrond, and Galadriel is even deeper, for these two, who do not await them, in the West.
Tris
jsc1953:
FUBISO(foo-BEE-soh); interjection; acronym for Fuck You Buddy, I’m Shipping Out. Popular among American soldiers during WWII- often said in response to a request which will not be complied with.
Just always thought it was an appropriate elven sentiment. 
So what do the other rings do? Anything cool like the One ring? Are they just “rings of power” which are never explained? C’mon geeks, come outta the woodwork for this one!
What is Valinor, and why is Galadriel banned from it?
Well, okay, I’ve read the books, but ::gets ready to d&r:: it’s been many years. I don’t remember if this is explained in LOTR, and I’ve never read The Silmarillion, but this hijack seemed to relate closely to this thread.
So, okay, say Sauron gets the ring. That is, the Ring. Can he then control Galadriel and Gandalf, since they have the Elven rings? Or do they have to be actually wearing the rings?