Well, but that still goes back again to the prophecy. No, he wasn’t protected against everything-- but up to that moment, he thought he was protected against everything important. He thought that because he wasn’t vulnerable to living men, he was automatically invulnerable to everything as powerful or less powerful than living men. He didn’t read between the lines. He didn’t check the warranty.
So in the end he was kind of hoist by his own petard. Could Gandalf have killed him? The Witch-King probably didn’t think so. Technically Gandalf probably wasn’t covered by the prophecy, but on the other hand Gandalf wasn’t wielding a sword enchanted specifically to kill witches. The point is that the Witch-King didn’t seem to fear Gandalf. Maybe that was just putting a brave face on the matter (much easier to do when invisible). But I think he was pretty confident that he could take on the heaviest hitters Middle-Earth had to offer. Sure, the ancient serpent blades of Westernesse could harm him-- in theory! But seriously, who the hell other than a living man would come after him swinging an ensorcelled Numenorean blade? It is to laugh, the Witch-King gloated to himself brassily, as he preened and strutted about.
“Arise, swift waters of the Bruinen! Arise, life’s-blood of Imladris! By the Ring of Sapphire I call to you: cleanse the land of the Enemy’s touch! By Manwe and… erm… Mithrandir? What… what are you doing?”
“I am turning the waves into the shapes of horses.”
“Ah. …Why?”
“Psychological warfare. Besides, it looks nice. Watch this: flaming white manes! That’s pretty impressive isn’t it? Not just anyone can make a wave burn like that, you know.”
“Gandalf–”
“Hang on… Now look! Riders on horseback! See that one in front? Look familiar? It’s you! Pretty good eh?”
“Look: I am trying to defend my home from the Nazgul and not incidentally keep the One Ring of Power out of the hands of the Enemy. It is a little distracting right now. Could you please help out by setting the water around the Ringwraiths on fire or something?”
“Fine, I will make the horses kick river boulders onto them. How’s that?”
I checked the letter, it was#183 to W.H. Auden’s Review of the RotK and it is a footnote of Tolkien’s.
To counter this isolated footnote, the UT says: “Who would go? For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might, and clothe themselves in flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men.” pg 393 Houghton Mifflin Paperback 1982.
I’m trying to track down another note that talked a bit about Saruman.
Gandalf would have mopped the floor with the Witch-King, if he’d dare to stand up to Gandalf. The Nazgul were not in the same league as Gandalf, and never were, even when Gandalf was the Grey (who did take out a Balrog, after all).
The Nazguls’ chief weapon was the unreasoning fear they inspired. To the fearless they held little threat. That’s how Aragorn was able to drive them off on Weathertop.
The chief weapon of the Nazgul was the unreasoning fear they inspired. And surprise. Er, the two chief weapons of the Nazgul were unreasoning fear and surprise. And ruthless efficiency. The three weapons of the Nazgul were unreasoning fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency. …And an almost fanatical dedication to the Dark Lord Sauron. Among the weapons of the Nazgul were such elements as… I’ll come in again.
It’s true that was a good weapon, but the W-K was a mighty, ancient warrior of bad-assitude, plus schooled in the darkest sorceries by Sauron, plus an immortal untiring undead horror… who had originally been a mighty Lord of Numenor.
I dunno… given that Sauron basically freaked out at the very sight of an army of Numenoreans come to spank him, I think 'old W-K just might have been a match, or more, for Gandalf - even Gandalf the White.
No, really just no. Old WK was not on the level of Gandalf. As I pointed out earlier, he was not even up to fighting a really badass Elf like Glorfindel.
I think this is right on the button. The Witch King had no clue who Gandalf really was, or had no will on whether to face him. Gandalf the Grey, who was in a human body (albiet one that aged very slowly) managed to go toe to toe with the last Balrog and throw him down before dying of his wounds. Gandalf the White might not even be in a human body anymore, and has additional power and additional authority. (Authority is the supremely important concept in Tolkien’s good vs evil dichotomy.) In the books Gandalf was confident that he could have beaten the Witch King.
The movie extended version shows the battle, at a different location going very badly for Gandalf, including the breaking of his staff by magic. This was my biggest beef with the extended version of the movies, undoubtedly there to add drama, because the beat down that impliedly would have happened in the books wouldn’t have been dramatic. There is no way that the Witch King had the “authority” to magically break Gandalf’s staff. Physically perhaps, but not magically.
And Gandalf’s ring, Narya, would have played to role in the battle except perhaps to sustain Gandalf’s morale, as its power was only in preservation and kindling spirits. That can be a powerful tool over the long term and with a mass army, but individually and in the heat of the moment it is not as powerful as the One or the Nine, which can instill fear.
As What Exit has said, I don’t think your position is tenable. This just doesn’t jibe with what JRRT had written about power.
The Witch-King was a wraith, who long ago faded into invisibility. He was shorn of his ring by his master, who kept it for himself. He was neither living nor dead, had no will but Sauron’s, and was certainly no student of Sauron’s, but rather a tool for said Maiar to use. And when he fell, he was quickly replaced by Khamûl.
And Sauron was freaked out (as it were) by the sheer size of the Numenorean forces, not by any inherent sorcery or magic about them. Only a few of the descendants of Luthien inherited even a mere hint of her power, to sing, and to have that song change Arda. She whupped ol’ Sauron’s ass at Minas Tirith (the original one) with that power. But none of her mortal descendants showed a glimmer of it.
Yup. Gandalf, Sauron, the Balrog, Saruman, and Rhadagast were all beings who existed before the creation of the world, and took part in the world’s creation. They exist outside of time, but are subject to time’s passage until the world’s course is complete.
I disagree with this a bit. But I’m not sure that is what **QtM **meant.
Sauron had complete control over the Witch king but not constant control. WK would not try to defy Sauron but was his Chief Captain as he had plenty of initiative to operate on his own. Sauron was probably striving with whoever was messing with his lightless day and he was worried about where the Heir of Elendil was at and what he was planning.
WK was arrogant enough to think he could take out the old man who never before the last few month had seemingly did more than meddle. Now Gandalf the White was very nearly Olorin at his full power. The flesh was light over his spirit when he was sent back.
