LOTR Question: Gandalf v. Witch King

Pretty much what What Exit said.

WK’s will was wholly subordinate to Sauron’s, but he still had a will of his own. He was more than a puppet. He was a dog who could not disobey his master’s commands. But unless told not to chase cats (not Tevildo), or lick himself, he still would, if it pleased him.

Was his relationship with Sauron analogous to Sauron’s relationship with Morgoth? WK = commander of # fortress Minas Morgul while Sauron = commander of #2 fortress Angband.

If the Witch King hadn’t been cut down, would it have been possible to arise as a Dark Lord in his own right after Sauron’s demise?

No, to the first. The WK was Sauron’s creation. Without the Rings, the Nazgul would all have died a natural death in their time. Their…er…“wraithitude” was completely created by Sauron. Sauron was not created by Morgoth, but rather corrupted by him.

No, to the last. Morgoth and Sauron were both Ainur, beings ultimately outside of Arda, if currently clothed in the substance of Arda. The Witch-King was ultimately a mortal, tied to immortality through Sauron’s power. Without Sauron’s power, the WK was nothing, as were all of the Nazgul. This is why they simply ceased functioning when the Ring fell into the Sammath Naur. Without the Ring, which held a very large portion of Sauron’s power, the Nazgul couldn’t “hold it together”, literally.

I’m not sure it’s as cut and dried as that.

This passage shows that wizards did have reason to fear the nazgul. They are not merely human in their power: "“The power of their master is in them.” Of course the Witch-King is only one of the nine, but he is described as the most powerful in every way.

The nazgul were unlikely to even survive Sauron and it is believed they could not survive the destruction of the One Ring. At best they would have been shadows of their former selves.

If you were looking for someone to rise up from Sauron’s followers then the Mouth of Sauron was probably more likely. We know nearly nothing about him but he seemed important and schooled in dark sorcery.

Nonetheless, it makes for quite an advantage when you can look your opponent in the eye and say, “Yeah, I remember the last guy who killed me. Now I’m still here and he’s not.”

You misspelled ‘virtually all works of RPG fantasy’.

True dat. Especially if they were written by Terry Brooks.

No one does, no one does . . .

NOBODY expects the Manwe-ish Inquisition!

You know strangely enough Eönwë is probably the right Maia to lead said Inquisition.

Point taken. Even so, it would appear to take all or most of the Nazgul, acting in concert with their master’s will driving them to rise to the level of a threat to the Wise.

And I always considered Gandalf’s comment to Denethor to be rather enigmatic on Gandalf’s part.

You need to work on your stealthiness some more methinks. :cool: