This question is in regard to Saruman- When he talks with Gandalf about smoke over in Mordor and such, the conversation gets to Saruman saying they have no choice but to align themselves with Sauron.
Now, the thing I am a bit confused about is, does Saurman want to ally with Sauron so he won’t get annihilated, or is it just the typical power/greed cliche? I can imagine he is just lying to Gandalf by saying that siding with Sauron is the only choice we have to preserving ourselves and just using it to trick Gandalf into joining him.
Gandalf mentions, “There is only one Lord of the Ring, and he does not share power” which leads me to believe that Saruman is tempted by the power of the ring somehow (perhaps?) which is influencing his actions.
When I first read the book, initially I thought Sauruman was actually a good guy; when I watched the movie I had forgotten that he switches teams and I thought it was pretty neat how he quickly transitions from this wise advice giver to an agent of Sauron.
Saruman was originally one of the good guys - the leader of the 5 wizards “assigned” to Middle-earth - but he was corrupted by Sauron (the Lord of the Ring) into thinking that he could rule Middle-earth with Sauron. I don’t remember if the transition was quick (though I doubt it as things are rarely quick in Middle-earth) but it was basically complete at the start of the War of the Ring.
Books : Saruman has deeply studied the makign of rings of power, initially so as to better understand them and to combat Sauron. The problem is that, the more he understands the process and the desite that drove it (domination) the more he becomes seduced to those ideas. We he finally is caught gazing into teh see stone he’s shown the might and power of Mordor and its lord. He then plays a dangerous game of deception. He deceives the Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel etc in an effort to find teh ring for himself, and he decieves Sauron by presenting himself as a trustworthy lieutenant.
The movies motivation is a weak version of the books, there simply isn’t the time to flesh it out. Both Sauron and Saruman desire to order the world to their wishes, and the ring (or an alliance with its wielder) is the best way to achieve this.
Books: Saruman had deeply studied the making of rings of power, initially so as to better understand them and to combat Sauron. The problem is that, the more he understands the process and the desire that drove it (domination) the more he becomes seduced to those ideas. He begins his deception by preventing the expulsion of the necromancer from Dol Guldur, in an attempt to find the ring himself. When he is finally caught gazing into the see stone he’s shown the might and power of Mordor and its lord, he changes tack. He then plays a dangerous game of deception. He deceives the Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel etc in an effort to find the ring for himself, and he deceives Sauron by presenting himself as a trustworthy lieutenant.
It finally comes to a head when he tries to snatch the ring at Amon Hen. He plays it as an attempt to recover the ring; however his orcs have orders to bring the ring to HIS hand. The orcs from Mordor try to prevent this but wind up more or less beaten and butchered into submission, though one does slip away to alert Mordor. Once Sauron learns that Saruman may have the ring he sends a “messenger” to recover it. It that point he hand is caught in the cookie jar. Either he has it and wont release it (traitor) or he doesn’t have it and can not release it but Sauron would never believe that (traitor again).
Rather than start ANOTHER LoTR thread i was just wondering if you can actually buy any of the stuff (copies, not originals) of the props, namely the one ring. I have found an internet bidding site for a one ring, but i think its one of the ones from the movie as it is currently on 299.99, tad expensive!!
does ne one know if you can get it for a more reasonable price, as i know you can get arwens pendent thing, but i find it hard to believe you can’t get the one ring!!!
Wayhay 100 posts!
Spoilers
Basically by using the Palantir, (that weird crystal ball thing) Saruman has opened himself up to corruption by Sauron, who also owns a Palantir. He has been persuaded by Sauron letting him see only what he is shown. He has seen the almighty armies of Mordor and their power and thus Sauron has persuaded him that the armies of Men have no chance, and that with an alliance they can rule Middle Earth together.
However, Saruman has studied ringlore and knows that the ring has been found. Sauron has told him to get the ring for him, but Saruman knows the power of the ring would put him above Sauron and wants it for himself.
Like Homer J, I don’t really want to open another thread, but I’ve got a few questions as well. Only one I can really remember right now (it’s been a while since I saw the movies, and I’ve never read the books).
What’s the deal with the classification of wizards being “Grey” and “White”? Obviously, white is stronger, but what comes with the new tittle?
And what powers to wizards have in Middle Earth? Apparently, they’re immortal, can fist fight with demons, and communicate with animals…but no teleportation spells to get from one town to the next instead of riding a horse? No fireballs to vanguish one’s enemies as opposed to beating them with a stick? How much power do they really have?
They have quite a bit of divine power, being members of the Ainur race as they are. They are just not allowed to use it. Gandalf had a lot of his power-use restrictions lifted after his reincarnation as the White.
Gandalf got to unveil partly when he battled the Balrog, as he was facing another Ainur, and therefor a foe beyond any of the mortals of the company.
I don’t know what the colors mean. They were White, grey, brown, and then the two blue wizards, Alatar and Pallando.
Gandalf and co. are Ainur. The Ainur were those spirits created by Eru, who sprang fully formed from His thought. They were with Him before aught was made, and assisted in the making of Arda (see Ainulindale).
The Ainur who came to Arda are divided into the Valar (the mightiest 14 Ainur) and the lesser Ainur, or Maiar, like Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, and the Balrog.
Melkor was counted among the Valar in the beginning but is no longer considered one of their number.
Gandalf had the same power to lift hearts long ages before the Elven rings were forged. It was a useful tool for him however, given his inherent skills.
I’ve often heard it said that the Wizards were Maiar - where does this idea come from? I’ve never found it in either LOTR or the Silmarillion.
Re teleportation: there seems to be a tremendous importance on remaining in a body in LOTR. After Sauron’s fall at the end of the 2nd Age he remains a bodiless spirit for a long time. (The same thing happened when Numenor fell, IIRC.) When the Nazgul are washed away at the Ford of Bruinen, they have to flee, formless, back to their master in Mordor. Presumably one has more power when embodied than disembodied - unlike Obi-Wan! So maybe Gandalf needs his body to continue to wield power?
well, Friend, in the Ainurindale part of the Silmarillion, it does state that “the wisest of the Maiar was Olorin”, and from another source (LotR?) we know that Olorin=Gandalf, so at least Gandalf was a Maia.
And they were required to advise, aid and encourage the free peoples to resist Sauron. A display of power would remove the “free will” aspect of choosing to resist. The idea of dominating a sentient creature is typical of Tolkien’s view of evil. Sauraman begins his decent once he begins to desire to order things to his will.
Try getting a bookmark with a ring attached-- I think it is a size 7, which fits my pinky finger, or works quite well on a chain around one’s neck. The New Line store online (don’t know the address, but it can’t be that hard to find) has a few rings in different price ranges, also.
I am taking a seminar on the mythology of Tolkien (College Rocks!) and Gandalf and the Balrogs are Maiar, as well as Sauron. If I am remembering correctly, Gandalf became Gandalf the White and leader of the White Council after Saruman went Many Colors. Maybe there always has to be a White Wizard in charge. I’m not sure, we haven’t gotten that far in the seminar.
Whatever happens, you can be sure Eru knows what he’s doing.
