Then why aren’t you groaning at my horrible ‘Nomin’ pun? 
I am ashamed to admit that I had to look it up.
I am proud to admit that Cinderella the Rhymer caught it before I did.
OK, I’ll bite. I don’t get the pun, and a 10 second check of Google didn’t help me.
Google “+nomin” and “Tolkiein” rather than “nomin” and “Tolkien.”
My google-fu is strong today.
Why the hell not? Peter Jackson showed it pretty clearly, IMHO.
Thanks, Skald.
Good point, since PJ made Faramir in the movies very close to Boromir as portrayed in the books.
Faramir’s successful resisting of the ring’s temptation depended on about three factors. First was the fact that he genuinely didn’t want to be a ruler, and thus it was harder for the Ring to tempt him with that particular blandishment. But just as important was his book-learning (the fact that he had read the same books in the archives as Gandalf and knew the ring’s dangers going on) and his self-knowledge (he knew himself well enough not to be fooled by the idea that he could handle it).
Obviously Boromir lacks the book-learning, and perhaps the degree of self-knowledge as well. But while the latter is a liability, the former may not be, because he’s not going to put the details of Frodo’s story together in the same way his younger brother did.
Also, the story Frodo tells him is going to be different; it may not involve the breaking of the Fellowship, for instance. I don’t think the Fellowship breaks the same way if Faramir is the 2nd Man rather than Boromir. Part of the reason Frodo leaves is that he suspects Boromir’s desire for the Ring, and he is worried about this from at least the time he sees Galadriel’s mirror. If Faramir is there, I think the Fellowship breaks basically the way Aragorn suggested: he, Frodo, Sam, & Gimli head for Mordor while Faramir takes the rest to Gondor.
Of course, Rohan probably falls in this scenario, so I’m not sure Eru allows it.
[Hijack]You know, I’ve wondered about that. If you’re Aragorn, and you want one other besides Frodo and Sam to go with you to Mordor, wouldn’t you take Legolas, whom you know to be incorruptible and who has the enhanced sight and hearing of an elf as well as great fighting skills?[/Hijack]
Legolas was definitely not incorruptible. I fact, the Ring could have eventually gotten any of the Fellowship, save Gandalf because he was not going to take possession of it. Unlike the movie, Gandalf could touch it, but refused to claim any “ownership” of it. The movie was quite correct in implying that the Ring would have caused them all to betray in time.
Additionally, Aragorn and Boromir were the only humans around, and Aragorn had elf-blood (Boromir, too, but less so). Humans have no natural defenses against the supernatural evils of the world, which made them a little more vulnerable to the Ring.
I think the book showed quite clearly that Aragorn had the love and support of the population of Gondor. Not only had he healed the beloved Faramir, but many remembered his stint as Thorongil in service to the city in earlier times. He could have claimed he Kingship then if he’d wanted to.
Had Denethor refused to step aside, and Aragorn was vetted by the Elves as the Real McCoy, I believe that the populace would have demanded Aragorn be placed on the throne, and Denethor would have ultimately yielded…TRM
Well, in Lothlorien, when the Lady looked searchingly at each member of the Fellowship, only Legolas (and Aragorn himself) did not quickly look away. That sounds pretty incorruptible to me. “None save Aragorn and Legolas could long endure her glance” is what the Professor said. (Admittedly, Sam looked away most quickly of all, but I’ve always assumed that was because he really, really wanted to go home, not because he felt any yearnings toward the Ring. And in fact, Sam did turn out to be largely immune to the Ring.)
I think the vast majority of elves could not be corrupted, because Sauron had seduced them once and they remember. Men are less able to truly heed lessons from their past, but Aragorn, being a throw-back to the best of the Numenoreans and sincerely not desiring power for himself, was less corruptible than most. But of the four - Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, and Legolas, I believe that Aragorn was in the most danger of being corrupted. But Gimli, I think, would have been in even more danger, because he would be less afraid and therefore less on guard against himself.
I’m thinking if the brothers are switched the whole story unfolds differently. Frodo separated from the Fellowship as a direct result of his confrontation with Boromir. The orcs capture Pippin and Merry because they were separated from the group in the confusion from the Boromir/Frodo encounter.
Maybe Frodo’s story would have taken off anyway, and his story unchanged until he met with Boromir, whereupon one might suppose the Ring might have been seized – for sure Gollum would have been killed.
What would have happend if P&M were not captured? Aragon wouldn’t have gone to Rohan. The ents wouldn’t have been awakened and thrown down Saruman. It’s also possible that Aragorn would have died defended the hobbits.
Yes. If they had stopped near Amon Hen anyway, I think they all might have been killed by the orc raiding party. As it was, Boromir was slain and the rest of the orcs fled before the battle was joined by the rest, but I think it’s clear that the Fellowship was outnumbered.
Gimli is also a badass, and as a Dwarf I think he was better suited to deal with the heat and other conditions in Mordor than anyone else, including Aragorn.
Add to that the possibility that the Fellowship might have been together when the Orcs attacked. Remember, part of the reason Frodo had wandered away that afternoon was his misgivings about Boromir. I don’t think Faramir would have excited similar feelings in him, and as a result his burden would have been less. Not only might he have stayed with his friends, but he might have been amenable to Arargorn’s plan–which, as I may have said, only SOUNDS like the right thing to do, but in fact probably leads to disaster, because Faramir’s presence may prevent Merry & Pippin from being abducted, which in turn keeps Treebeard et al out of the War. I’m not sure whether it matters if Faramir or Aragorn is at Rohan; Faramir might in fact be a little better, as he’ll have an easier time of it with Eomer. But Aragorn going to Mordor means he doesn’t take command of the Dead, which means he and the Rangers don’t get the Corsair ships, which means Minas Tirirth probably falls.
That may have had to more to do with bloodlines than incorruptibility. Aragorn was a Numenorean, descended of kings and born to rule, and Legolas was an elf and the son of a king.
The gardener was of common stock, unlike Gimli (descendant of Durin the Deathless), Boromir (Numenorean, son of the Steward of Gondor), and Merry and Pippin (scions of Hobbit aristocracy). If corruptibility were the issue, certainly Boromir would have looked away before Sam.
In any case, Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel all had chances to say “Hey, you know what, let’s have the awesome and incorruptible Legolas take the Ring to Mount Doom.” That they instead said that if Frodo did not complete the task, no one would, speaks volumes. They weren’t called “the Wise” for nothing.
In the book, Gandalf does not touch the Ring, either. He fishes it out of Frodo’s fire with the tongs, and has Frodo take it. Bilbo puts it in an envelope and Gandalf picks the envelope up and puts it on the mantle, but does not touch the Ring. Frodo offers the Ring to Gandalf, and Gandalf refuses it.
The elves that Legolas belongs to were not corrupted by Sauron, having failed to make it over the mountains West to Beleriand (though it is possible that Thranduil was Sindarin; IIRC Tolkein makes some comments to that effect in later writings).
In the book, I’m fairly positive he handles it once. He doesn’t QUITE treat it like plutonium.
True, but did he know that? The fellow who overshadowed Denethor went by the name “Thorongil”, not “Aragorn”.
(yes, Aragorn had a ton of names. He was almost as bad as Turin that way)
And the fact that Legolas longest endured the gaze of Galadriel makes him the worst candidate for bearing the Ring, not the best. Looking into the gaze of Galadriel is like staring into the Sun. It only takes a single glance for good Hobbit sensibility to kick in and turn away, but the proud, like Legolas, will endure it longer. But pride is a very powerful tool for the Ring to exploit.
Elessar tried to take the field;
The House of Stewards refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died?
Doesn’t scan. Easier to shoehorn in either Denethor or Boromir in the second line.