If we’ve ever discussed this what-if scenerio, I don’t recall it. As you doubtless recall, Bilbo held the Ring for decades before Gandalf learned of it’s existence, then it took Gandalf some time (years?) to confirm his suspicions. Suppose after rejoining the dwarven party Bilbo had somehow let slip to Gandalf that he had a magic ring. I can think of two major possibiliites:
Gandalf, already near-certain that the Necromancer is in fact the latest incarnation of Sauron, freaks when he hears that a magic ring has reappeared. The timing is enough to make him fear that this is in fact the One Ring, and as a result he completely changes his plans both for the quest against Smaug and the Wizards’ planned attack.
The events of the Hobbit transpire more or less as they did, but Gandalf comes to the conclusion that the One Ring has reappeared decades sooner than he would have. The decision about what to do is taken more leisurely, given that Sauron has only just reappeared and events aren’t yet crisis driven. A HUGE what-if is if Gandalf makes the mistake of taking Saruman into his confidence about it.
Gandalf manages to capture and interrogate the creature Gollum. The true nature of the ring is now confirmed.
With Mordor not yet rearmed and reoccupied, there is little difficulty in going to Mount Doom and getting rid of it. No need for catapults or eagles.
Gondor can go on as a republic, because after all, Gondor needs no king. I didn’t vote for him.
The OP is based upon a flawed premise: that Gandalf does not know of the existence of Bilbo’s ring until much later than the events in The Hobbit. Bilbo tells the dwarves about the ring and its ability to make him invisible during the events of The Hobbit itself; as you will recall, Balin goes to sleep afterward chuckling about Bilbo having just snuck past him quietly back when Bilbo escapes from the tunnels of the goblins. So certainly Gandalf knows about the fact Bilbo has a ring that makes him invisible right then and there.
The more interesting question is: what if Gandalf had twigged to the fact that this interesting little trinket had to be the One Ring at that time? With that in mind, carry on the discussion.
One minor nitpick: Gandalf wasn’t there. Bilbo was forced to let the dwarves in on the secret in Mirkwood, while Gandalf was away. Still, he presumably found out about it within a few months, as he was back just before the Battle of Five Armies. All the dwarves knew about it, and Gandalf also knew about Bilbo slipping out of camp to broker the Arkenstone deal.
I think you’re right, DSYoung. I also think that that scenario leads to disaster.
Gandalf, you will recall, is not an expert in Ring lore. This is understandable on his part; there are only so many hours in the day, and he has to sleep and rest and eat and go about dragging storms behind him like the crow that he is, so he leaves that particular discipline up to Saruman.
Now, I don’t have my books at hand (and refuse to trust Wikipedia), but I expect that, at the time of The Hobbit, Saruman was already corrupt and desirious of the Ring–and he still had Gandalf’s trust. So if Gandalf, on the way back to the Shire, began to suspect that Bilbo’s Ring was not one of the many lesser ones, but the Big Bad itself, he most probably would have checked with Saruman for help. With no war with Mordor on the horizon, Sauman would be able to convince him that they’ve caught a lucky break. “Bring the halfling here, and we shall examine his ring, and if it is the one, we will find a way to free him of any worrisome influence, and then we can quietly work on a way to destroy it,” Saruman would say. Or, perhaps, “This development is both propitious and perilous. Let us,you and I, have supper here tonight, and rest, and on the morrow I will ride with you ot the Shire so that we can investigate together–or, if you have other business, I will go alone.”
Any of these scenarios end badly for the West. To be specific, they end with the White Hand of Orthanc bearing the ring and spreading a second darkness over the lands.
Possibly a 3rd level nitpick: Gandalf was still with them when they escaped from the goblins and that was when Bilbo got the ring and the what-if scenario could have started right there.
Unless he meant what he wrote to be the start of the What-If.
As a matter of principle I am too lazy to actually go get and read the book right now, but wasn’t Gandalf suspicious from the first moment Bilbo told of his escape? That would have been the earliest moment for it to be discovered.
What I meant was that the parties in The Hobbit knew about the ring. Yes, Gandalf would have had to find out later, since he was off dealing with the Necromancer when Bilbo let the dwarves know what his secret was, but it’s pretty clear someone would have clued him in fairly shortly after his return and the end of the Battle of the Five Armies.
So if the question in the OP is as it reads (“What if Gandalf had known that Bilbo had a magic ring years before he finally learned of it?”), then the answer is: “That’s not possible, since he learned within at most a couple months after Bilbo got it.” That is why I raise the similar question: “What if Gandalf, knowing that there was a chance Bilbo’s pretty and usefull trinket was something more sinister, began to explore that possibility right away?” And in answer to that, I think Skald nails it in one. :eek:
I have The Annotated Hobbit in front of me now. In the chapter “Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire,” Bilbo surprised Gandalf and the dwarves after escaping from the goblins and then, as to his adventures under the mountain, “told them everything - except about the finding of the ring (‘not just now,’ he thought).” After he’d told the edited version and been praised by the dwarves for his impressive burgling/sneaking skills, Gandalf “gave Bilbo a queer look from under his bushy eyebrows… and the hobbit wondered if he guessed at the part of his tale that he had left out.”
I tend to agree with Skald’s theory as to how things would’ve unfolded thereafter. The Ring’s premature discovery by Gandalf would almost inevitably have brought it into Saruman’s eager and malign grasp.
In 2850, Gandalf gets into Dol Guldur the second time and discovers that the Necromancer is, indeed, Sauron. He sees Thrain and gets the Key to Erebor’s secret door.
In 2851, Gandalf urges the White Council to attack Dol Guldur. Saruman overrules him. The notation at the bottom of the page states that, afterward, it was learned that Saruman had begun to desire to possess the One Ring, and didn’t want Sauron disturbed at the time.
In 2939, Saruman finds out that Sauron is searching the Gladden Fields for the Ring. This time, Saruman consents to an attack on Dol Guldur when the White Council meets in the fateful year of 2941 (the year Bilbo finds the Ring). So for some 90+ years, Saruman has known about the Ring’s demise, has coveted the Ring, and has been searching for it while dissembling from the Council. :mad:
“Listen, strange women lyin’ in ponds distributin’ swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.”
“Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help! I’m being repressed!”
Oops, wrong film.
