Tulkas, the boxer? It’s probably more a job for Aule and his hammer. But this suggestion was mooted at the Council of Elrond, and those in the know said basically that whoever took the horrid thing into Valinor would get put on the next boat back with instructions to keep Middle-Earth’s problems in Middle-Earth, if you please.
In JRRT’s early drafts of ROTK, Denethor did face Aragorn after the latter had delivered the city from besieging forces. And a groundswell of popularity began to arise for this “Ranger from the North”. So had he lived, I expect Denethor would have found himself as irrelevant for trying to hold back time and keep things unchanging as the Elves finally found themselves.
What if Legolas had run out of arrows?
(Sorry, couldn’t resist. I kept wondering if he just kept getting them from vending machines all over Middle Earth…)
In LOTR it specifically mentions that Legolas did run out of arrows and was scavenging whatever unbroken orc arrows he could find to fire back at them.
That always struck me as a bit odd, that an Elf would willingly use Orc tools, even for the purpose of killing orcs.
A little history on Gondor. Both Isildur and Anarion co-founded the realm of Gondor, and they were co-rulers. Isildur founded Minas Ithil (later Minas Morgul) and Anarion founded Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith). Osgiliath was the capital city, and their thrones were set side by side in the throne room in the center of the city.
Meanwhile, Elendil founded Arnor to the north, and was it’s king. But Elendil was acknowledged by his sons to be the High King of all the faithful Numenorians, and also of all citizens of Gondor and Arnor.
After Elendil’s death, Isildur took up the High Kingship and rode north, leaving the rule of the south in the hands of his nephew, Meneldil, son of Anarion (who was slain in the siege of the Barad-Dur). He never renounced his claim to the kingship of the kingdom he co-founded, Gondor.
But when Isildur died, and left only his young son Valandil alive as his heir, the idea of the high king over both Arnor and Gondor died with him. But the heirs of Isildur never forgot the High Kingship.
Such was the argument that Arvedui, last king of Arnor put forth, when claiming the crown of Gondor, after the death of Ondoher, king of Gondor. Arvedui was already married to Ondoher’s daughter Firiel, at the time. But the Dunedain of Gondor rejected the claim, and granted the kingship to Earnil II, a descendant of an earlier king of Gondor, Telumehtar Umbardacil.
Which makes Aragorn a descendant of both Isildur and Anarion. A fact he notes when he gazes upon the Argonath (in the book, the statues were of Isildur and Anarion).
I hope that clarifies things.
Now what was the question? 
Oh, I don’t know. Those Moriquendi elves were pretty pragmatic. First things first, and all that.
I think if The Ring hadn’t been found (and destroyed) when it was Sauron would have defeated all his opponents militarily as has been pointed out before. He would then have ruled triumphantly for thousands of years. Then when The Ring WAS found it WOULDN"T have been destroyed, one of his slaves would either give it to him or be forced to turn it over, and he would have then ruled triumphantly …forever.
smiling bandit I am a little confused. When you say only Gandalf would have been able to “win”, do you mean only Gandalf wielding the Ring could conceivably defeat Sauron, whereas the others (Galadriel, Saruman, Elrond) wouldn’t be able to defeat Sauron even if they wielded the Ring? If yes, then what happens to Gandalf in that scenario (he claims the Ring and defeats Sauron)…I always figured he would then become simply another version of Sauron. What does Tolkien say?
I guess the biggie for me is: What if Sauron reclaimed the Ring?
As noted above, barring the Ring’s destruction, his conquest of ME was all but assured. So, in any event, Sauron is King of the World. But with the Ring, he’s almost back to his old self, being one of the more powerful Maia, and probably able to relax a bit instead of expending his will commanding vast armies to fight the Elves and Dunedain. What does a creature with such immense power do with himself once conquest is complete? How would he govern the World? Would he demand worship? Would he be recognized as a God by the people of ME? Would the Valar under Eru stand for that?
Gotcha. I guess I’d better read the books. I keep saying I’ll get around to it.
Tolkein is pretty clear on this.
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Anyone would have had a chance at killing Sauron (well, reducing him to a shadow that could never claim the Ring) - if they were trained in using their will. Aragorn would have lost - but Aragorn, studying foul sorcerery for eons while holding off Sauron’s legions might have ben able to do it. Those who were already steeped in lore (the most powerful elves and the wizards) would have had a chance right off.
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The chance was significant but no overwhelming. In order to defeat Sauron without destroying the Ring, one would have to confront him with the Ring and claim it in a duel of wills. But, Sauron has a huge advantage in that the Ring truly does belong to him. Gandlaf alone had positively good odds of victory.
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Each possible user of the RIng was corrupted in their way towards control, hich is the essence of evil in Tolkein. The desire to rule or possess. Galadriel could have become a dark queen ruling the hearts of men and elf alike. Saruman would have built vast industrial cities and factories. Sauron wanted to rule over the world like his own private whipping grounds.
Gandalf could have been similarly corrupted had he chosen to take the Ring. Knowing him, he probably wouldn’t have built factories or nuthin’, but he probably would ahve tried to purify all those elements he saw as corrupt. In other words, we probably would have gotten a totalitarian thought-control regime. But I don’t recall Tolkei being too clear on this. He knew it would have been bad and didn’t worry too much about specifically how Gandalf would have gone about it.
As log as the Ring existed, Sauron lost no power from his old self. With the Ring, he was even stronger. All corrupt Maiar tended to lose their ability to take different forms, or lost native strength a bit by externalizing it into servants and powers. Their power actually grew overall, but in order to use it they had to let it pass form under their control. The Ring is essentially another form of this.
For a while at least. They never act with haste. If they felt that Middle-Earth’s chances were really gone, they might have acted - but remember that their involvement in the past had generally been
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Playing in Middle-Earth
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Sending one army - but against Sauron’s old boss, Morgoth, and only when asked directly, which won’t happen again.
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Sending the wizards (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, Pallando or maybe it was Pallatar and Allando)
Actually, they attacked Morgoth twice: once in Utumno, and once in Thangorodrim.
As for happenning again, there are two Silmarils - the means by which Earendil managed to defeat the enchantments protecting Valinor - lying around, just waiting to be found: one in the sea, and one in the earth. And there are still elves who can go from Middle Earth to Valinor.
A few points:
My understanding was that Dragon fire could indeed destroy the ring. I believe Gandalf specifically mentions that.
Do remember that it was Eru (God) who resurrected Gandalf. Not the Valar. They were prohibited from directly interfering with Middle-Earth. They had their chance and their involvement was fairly disastrous (sinking of an entire continent and all that). Eru prohibited their direct involvement so even if Sauron had one I am not sure there was much the Valar could do about it.
I always read the books as suggesting that Gandalf was a weaker Maia than Sauron. It is highly unlikely that he would have won a face-to-face battle with Sauron without using the ring.
It’s mentioned that the greater and lesser rings could be melted by dragon fire but not the one. There’s even mention that no dragon exists which is powerful enough to consumer those rings either. Mind you if we’re supposing Smaug is still around he might have been.
The Valar laid down their rulership of Arda and Eru changed the nature of the world.
Sauron was one of the most powerful and the deepest in league with Morgoth. Gandalf (in either Unfinished or Untold Tales) actually resists being sent to Middle-Earth as he’s afraid of Sauron.
My interpretation is that dragon’s fire could destroy the ring (this was the same fire that could hurt Valar) but that there was, currently (as in the third-age), no dragon in existence that could do so.
They were commanded by Eru not to interfere directly. This was a response to the sinking of Beleriand.
True. Gandalf without the Ring could not have defeated Sauron. Gandalf was pretty nervous about going over to Middle Earth. He wasn’t sure he could handle it. But the Vala chose well, and the knew that his Wisdom sore was surely as high as Curunir’s Int score.
It’s fairly well established that those are pretty well lost. It might be possible, but given the various cataclysms they’re not going to show up for a long while.
True. Gandalf without the Ring could not have defeated Sauron. Gandalf was pretty nervous about going over to Middle Earth. He wasn’t sure he could handle it. But the Vala chose well, and the knew that his Wisdom sore was surely as high as Curunir’s Int score.
It’s fairly well established that those are pretty well lost. It might be possible, but given the various cataclysms they’re not going to show up for a long while. But they might have actually been able to help people defeat Sauron - the mere touch of the Silmaril somehow changed the entire rules of the cosmos for a man once, and led whole nations to doom and glory, and brought down the most evil being ever.
Feanor was one BAD-@$$ MO-FO!
(From memory. The exact words are in book 1, chapter 2.
Is that in HOMES?
One is in the ocean depths, the domain of Ulmo. It would be convenient for Ulmo to have a fish swallow it, then be caught.
Alternatively it could simply be washed up. Isn’t one of the sons of Feanor (the bard?) supposed to still be alive?
I have always wondered how the end of these stories would have been different if Frodo had indeed thrown the Ring into the fire…
I doubt it would have changed the scouring of the Shire much, if at all, but what changes would there be within Frodo and then his relationship with Sam etc?
Also, I like to speculate that Aragorn and Eowyn would have made a good team (I never warmed up to either book Arwen or movie Arwen–though I think Liv did a good job).