LOTR Witch King Question

Never before has any voice dared to utter the words of that tongue on the Straight Dope!

“Ai! Ai!” (as Logolas would say). I have spent over 30 years thinking the only named Nazgul was Gothmog, lieutenant of Morgul. Until I read this. And looked it up. An reread the relevant passage in ROTK.

Sigh.

Next you’ll be telling me “Fargo” wasn’t really based on a true story :stuck_out_tongue:

–jack

Ai! I just had a horrible thought–a “Fargo” and “LOTR” mashup with everyone speaking Minnesota Nice (you betcha!).

Oh man, I’m going to have nightmares now:

[Saruman to Gandalf in Orthanc]

Saruman: The Ruling Ring. If we could command that, then the Power would pass to us. That is in truth why I brought you here. For I have many eyes in my service, and I believe that you know where this precious thing now lies.

Gandalf: I told ya. We haven’t had any One Rings turn up.

Saruman: Okay! But are ya sure? 'Cause I mean, how do you know? Do you do a count, or what kind of a routine do you have here?

Gandalf: Wizard, I answered your question!

Saruman: [long pause] I’m sorry, Greybeard?

Gandalf: Wizard, I answered your question. I answered the darned… I’m cooperatin’ here!

Saruman: Greybeard, you have no call to get snippy with me, I’m just doing my evil-overlord job here.

Gandalf: I’m… I’m not arguing here! I’m cooperating. So there’s no need to… we’re doin’ all we can here.

Saruman: Greybeard, could I talk to Mr. Manwe?

Gandalf: Well, heck, if you wanna play games here! I’m workin’ with ya on this thing, but I… Okay, I’ll do a damned ring count!

Saruman: Greybeard? Right now?

Gandalf: Sure right now! You’re darned tootin’!

[time passes, Gandalf flies off on a giant eagle]

Saruman: Oh for Pete’s sake, he’s fleeing the interview! He’s fleeing the interview! [picks up Palantir] Sauron? Sauron! It’s Gandalf, he’s fleeing the interview!
[Frodo and Boromir at Amon Hen]

Boromir: Ah! The Ring! Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing? [moves next to Frodo and puts his arm around him] Do you mind if I stand over here?

Frodo: No. Why don’t you sit over there? I’d prefer that.

Boromir: Huh? Uh… ok. [moves back]

Boromir: Sorry.

Frodo: Oh, no, no. Just so I can see you. I don’t have to turn my neck. Ya, so I can keep an eye on your ring-grubbing hands, you betcha.

[Aragorn and Boromir just past Moria deciding what to do next]

Aragorn: Where is Lembas House?

Borimir: What?

Aragorn: We stop at Lembas House.

Boromir: I don’t want no fuckin’ lembas, man. I want to go somewhere I can get a shot and a beer, and a steak, maybe. Hey, I know this place outside Dol Guldur where we can get laid.

Aragorn: Look, I’m fucking hungry now, you know.

Boromir: O.K., we’ll go get some fucking lembas, and then get laid.
[Gandalf talking to Saruman after the fall of Isengard]

Gandalf: So that was 2,000 defenders you decked at Helm’s Deep, there. And I guess that was about 1,000 trees from Fangorn in the wood chipper. And those 2,000 more poor peasants in Rohan. And for what? For a little bitty ring, and world domination. There’s more to life than world domination, you know. Don’t you know that? And here ya are, and it’s a beautiful day. Well, I just don’t understand it.

[Shagrat, being questioned by a Nazgul, after Frodo has been rescued by Sam from Cirith Ungol]
Shagrat: Well, the little guy was kinda funny-lookin’.

Nazgul: In what way?

Shagrat: I dunno, just funny-lookin’.

Nazgul: Can you be any more specific?

Shagrat: I couldn’t really say. He wasn’t circumcised.

Nazgul: Was he funny lookin’ apart from that?

Shagrat: Yah…

Nazgul: So, you were havin’ sex with the little fellow then.

Shagrat: Uh huh…

Yup. Gothmog is never actually given a definite race/species, though it’s generally assumed he was an Uruk-hai. Of course, the ORIGINAL Gothmog was a balrog.

<snip the J.R.R. Coen sequence>

Y’know…you’re a sick, sick man.

Well, to be honest, I’ve always just called him “horse”.

Main info: The Nazguls

  1. Murazor, the Witch-King
  2. Khamul, the Easterling
  3. Dwar, the Unforgiving
  4. Ji Indur, The Outcast
  5. Akhorahil, the Blind Sorcerer
  6. Hoarmurath, the Ice King
  7. Adunaphel, The Quiet
  8. Ren, the Unclean
  9. Uvatha, the Messenger

From the Encyclopedia of Arda, a good online resource of Tolkieniana at www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/

What were the names of the nine Nazgûl?

One of them, the second in rank after the Lord of the Nazgûl himself, was named Khamûl, and also known as the Black Easterling. This is the only one of the nine Nazgûl explicitly named by Tolkien.

This may come as a surprise if you’ve come across one of the many sources that list a set of names of the other eight: Murazor (the Witch-king himself), Dwar, Ji Indur, Akhorahil, Hoarmurath, Adunaphel, Ren and Uvatha. These names are common across the Web, and often have detailed biographies to go with them. They’re also consistent with what Tolkien had to say about the origins of the Nazgûl: in the Akallabêth it is stated ‘…among those whom he ensnared with the Nine Rings three were great lords of Númenórean race’, and indeed three of these names are Númenórean in form: Murazor, Akhorahil and Adunaphel.

None of these eight names, though, have their origins in Tolkien’s own work. Instead, they come from a series of role-playing and trading card games produced by Iron Crown Enterprises. The names of Murazor, Dwar and the rest emerged from the unavoidable need for these games to develop and expand Tolkien’s universe to meet the needs of the gaming fraternity. The games’ popularity accounts for the regular appearance of the names, to the extent that they’re now frequently presented as the ‘true’ names of the remaining eight Nazgûl.

Some readers have even suggested that these names are so widely accepted that they should be considered the de facto names for the eight otherwise unnamed Ringwraiths. On a personal level, or in the context of the games that spawned the names, this isn’t an unreasonable approach: if Tolkien never told us the name of, say, the Witch-king, there seems little obvious harm in imagining that his name was originally Murazor (or anything else, for that matter). Things become a little more problematic where the names are published without explanation: we receive plenty of e-mail from puzzled readers trying to work out which of Tolkien’s books the names come from (hence this entry in the FAQ).

As for The Encyclopedia of Arda, this site is very specifically aimed at exploring Tolkien’s own works, so it really isn’t appropriate to include names or biographical details that we know did not come from Tolkien himself. Indeed, the same principle applies to characters who appear only in the recent movies, so it’s not our intention to provide entries for (say) Hoarmurath, Uvatha or - for that matter - Lurtz from Peter Jackson’s movie of The Fellowship of the Ring.

The list I posted before your post was one I got from googling “Ren the Unclean.” It’s the only one I remembered from my ICE playing days.

Which were prior to when Ren met Stimpy.

Eh. I always thought Stimpy was a stupid name for a Balrog anyway…

Yeah, but it would have made a great name for Bill Ferny’s cat.

Annnd… Nestor has gained approval from the Boss. She was a tad hesitant about it, mostly because she thought it sounded a bit like an unruly little boy’s name, but when I pointed out that he sort of is an unruly little boy, she agreed- with the caveat that I am not allowed to constantly laugh at him because it’ll give him a complex. :smiley: So I’ll have to laugh internally every time I say “Ears, Nestor.”

Incidentally, for ease of use (our kids have enough trouble with “Brego” and our staff is slightly more competant), I intend to pronounce it the same way as the Christmas Special. How far off is that going to be? Is a Tolkien scholar going to show up some day and whap me upside the head?

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this (and especially Balance)- y’all have given me some good laughs. I’ll post pics as soon as they’re available.

And it happily has a second and thoroughly respectable meaning too! :slight_smile:

Yikes. I hope that wasn’t in response to the request for translating “Binky.” Cause, if so… you had some weird pacifiers…

Yay, I helped name a horse.

Everyone either ignores or groans at my suggestions in the perennial name-a-pet threads in MPSIMS, so I shall savor my small triumph. :wink:

I will have to remember this thread when it comes time to name our pigs this year. Last year we called them Breakfast and Lunch, but this year there will be 4 of them.

Well, duh! Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam…

I don’t know, they will be food products. Maybe we can name them after named evils. I understand Dragon taste like pork; so maybe, Ancalagon the Black, Smaug, Glaurung & Scatha.

Jim :slight_smile:

Well, it IS believed that Grima ate hobbit when Saruman ruled the Shire. Lotho, to be specific…

You could stay with the same theme and still work in a LOTR theme. Call the other two Second Breakfast and Elevensies.

Thanks muchly for the retention, then.

I think this is twice now at the SDMB that my apparently gender-neutral username has earned me an offer to become someone’s bride. Somehow I find it vaguely disappointing that an accidental imaginary girl version of me is more popular than actual me. Unsurprising, yes; but still depressing.