You may wish to see post #4 here: We Need Your Votes!! in the Anthology Thread of the February 2012 SDMB Poetry Sweatshop! - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board
Holy shit–that’s awesome. I’ve missed it. Where’s it from?
ETA: on spoiler, is it yours?
Yup.
Gandalf and the Witch King met as the gates of Minas Tirith fell. Both knew that defeating the other would be a major blow.
WK retreats, claiming that some blowing horns indicate that he left the oven on at home.
G spurs his horse. He intends to chase down WK and fight him while surrounded by the WK’s army.
There are other examples of the vast disparity in personal combat power between these 2, but that says it all. Gandalf was far more powerful, and both of them knew it.
I just noticed the date on the other posts. April 14th is a long time ago for a post. April ‘14 is a really long time ago.
I was getting ready to respond and then saw I already did 6 years ago. I like my summary of 6 years ago,
Yes, it was a good summary.
Speaking of the Witch-King, I always feel like the subject of prophecy in fantasy should be a little more genre-savvy about it:
Glorfindel: “Do not pursue him, he will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall.”
Witch-King: “Ah, so it’ll be a woman then.”
Glorfindel: “Well, I didn’t say that necessarily. . . .”
Witch-King: “But that’s the clear implication, right? So I’ll run off half-cocked thinking I’m invincible, and then I’ll be done for by a woman, or I’ll get thrown off a horse, or maybe some guy will kick me to death with his feet.”
Glorfindel: “Look, man, don’t rules-lawyer the prophecy to death. It’s a plot device, not a contract.”
If he’s not considered a “man”, then I don’t see why he couldn’t stab the witch king in the face just as well as Eowyn.
Then again, I don’t thing the witch king would just stand there and monologue if he was facing off with Gandalf.
In terms of physical form, Gandalf really was a man in body if not spirit.
For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years.
True for Gandalf the Grey, probably not so true for Gandalf the White. He was sent back, when sent back many of his restrictions were removed.
If a Hobbit counts as “not a man”, would Aragorn, with his tiny trace of Elven and Maiar lineage, have counted?
No, Aragorn would not have counted.
The whole “not by the hand of men” prophecy is what Glorfindel said to Earnur, last king of Gondor, to stop him from going after the Witch-king.
And Earnur was many generations closer than Aragorn to the Elven/Maiar lineage.
I think Aragorn, elite lineage regardless, falls squarely into the category of ‘man’.
It occurs to me that a lot of this hair splitting ignores what the prophecy really said. Glorfindel didn’t say that the Witch King could not be killed by a man, he just said (more or less), “I know what’s going to happened, soI know that it’s not a man that finally kills him.”
Gandalf v. WK at the gates of Gondor is my favorite scene in the entire book. And Jackson left it out of the movie (theatrical edition) or ruined it (extended edition). But I forgive him. I’ll just wait for the reboot.
(Tangentially, the best scenes in the book are the meetings between our heroes, and the forces of evil – precisely because they’re rare; the villains are largely kept off stage with few lines.
Frodo and Nazgul at the ford; Gandalf and the balrog; Pippin and Sauron; Gandalf and the WK; Eowyn and the WK; Aragorn et al and the Mouth of Sauron. PJ got 2 of those right, IMHO.)
The wizards are limited in their power use for the same reason Darth Vader can’t use Force lightning.
Run too much juice through the avatar and you’re the one who gets his shit fucked up, and replacement bodies don’t come cheap,
That’s a great way to put it. The human-ish bodies they’re in can’t really handle Maia power levels. Some spells might cause digits to burn off.
Maybe that’s why Sauron made The Ring. He could route some power through it, without tripping the breaker.