Not to knock the guy, but he really doesn’t do much in the way of spellcasting. He’s got a nifty sword, had a staff until he broke it, has a lesser ring…but not a lot of firepower. Elminster would smoke him with a single “Magic Missle” spell. In WoW, my level 73 gnome mage farts for more DPS (damage per second) than Gandalf has ever done. In the original Everquest, the infamous Oakbrow Farwalker could have quadkited Balrogs and Ring Wraiths without breaking a sweat. (that version of Oakie was known to solo old world dragons and other outlandish stunts–it was good to be a druid then). Hell, even Giles from the Buffyverse has shown more magical ability than Gandalf (granted with some channeling power from other Watchers or somesuch).
Seems like I almost remember an article in Dragon magazine or somewhere claiming Gandalf was about a 5th level magic user under AD&D rules. 5th level isn’t particularly powerful–1 3rd level spell, 2 second level spells, 3 first level spells not counting inteligence bonuses if any.
The way I’ve heard it, and I can’t remember from where precisely, is that the best wizards never need their magic. They use wisdom and reputation to accomplish their goals, and a wizard is most fearsome when you don’t know exactly what he’s capable of. They don’t throw fireballs around, they influence things. Gandalf had magic, but he rarely needed it, and only used it when it could be exploited to best and most dramatic effect.
Of course, most readers/gameplayers are in it for the action, and a fireball-throwing wizard is inherently more interesting to them than a conniver, which Gandalf was.
Well, I’m sure that the LotR masters will show up here soon, but I’ll note that he’s not actually human - he’s actually some sort of angel-equivilent whose name I can never remember. So he presumably has a lot more power than he normally displays.
Wizards in Tolkein’s milieu were maia, angel-like beings who were sent to Middle Earth to rally support and get the locals to implement the policies of Management back in Valinor. Gandalf’s role, in particular, was to “kindle the fire” of Men and Elves, so he was more of an advisor than a doer.
Ha! I came here to say just the opposite: that a wizard/witch/sorcerer who isn’t ridiculously powered up with video-game abilities makes for a better character (and a better narrative) than one who is.
Hmmm. My perspective is very much that of a reader/gamer. That whole subtle conniver thing can work…but to establish the “true power” of the character, you have to show him really kick ass at least once. I don’t recall Gandalf ever really doing that. Yeah, he sorta almost soloed a balrog. Whoopee. Didn’t really beat it so much as held it to a draw and sorta killed himself in the process. Showed up for the big battle somewhere…Helmsdeep maybe?..glowing like a Vorlon…but again, no real spell slinging. Dude may as well be flying a desk somewhere, and sending in a drunk dwarf to do the fighting.
The whole bit about “kite balrogs and ringwraiths” seems a bit absurd. For all you know, Glamdring could have been a weapon +100,000,000 and the Balrog could have mocked your puny spells and had you for lunch. Let’s not mix our apples with our shiny rocks here.
What Gandalf is, however is several things:
A) One of the few people who can do real, honest magic, in a world which, while full of ‘magical’ creatures, doesn’t really contain much in the way of sparklie, castable magic. If I walked down main street and lit my cigarette with a snap of my fingers, I’d be the Greatest Wizard on Earth, simply because I could do ANY magic.
B) The inspiration for all those two bits comeafters. Do you sincerely think Elminster would exist without Gandalf?
C) One of the beings who helped shape the universe with his song, which means that if it weren’t for…
D) Explicitly forbidden by the Powers that Be to “match Power with Power”; You really, truly, have no idea -what- Gandalf could or could not do, because he was, on some fairly fundamental level, prohibited from doing it.
… that you’d be talking about some pretty epic level destruction.
Indeed, Gandalf was Olórin in the West. An angelic type collectively called Maiar. He had excellent control over fire, helped by the Elven Ring of Fire. He was fairly handy with lightning as seen at the Goblin Cave in the Hobbit and on Weathertop as he held of the Black Riders. His greatest power though was staying true to his mission that including minimizing the use of his powers and guiding others to fight Sauron. By AD&D rules he did not show many great powers but then neither did Merlin that I recalled. The arch-type wizards and Gandalf is clearly one of them, second only to Merlin I think, did not constantly use their powers. It was a pretty good trick to fight a Balrog to the death and come back with only Gods help.
He was quite exceptional in making useful friends from the Great Eagles who were natural allies as servants of Manwë who picked Olórin to go; to Beorn, Shadowfax, Fangorn, Elrond, Glorfindel and Galadriel, Aragorn and the Hobbits. He brave exploring Moria, Dol Guldor and Mordor and as pointed out we know only a very small portion of everything he did in his 2000+ years in Middle Earth as Gandalf. As Gandalf the White he was far more powerful as he no longer had to hold back.
BTW: His staff was never broken, he broke Sauruman’s.
I thought he broke his own staff in the Balrog fight, right before taking the fall of not-quite-doom. Also thought that was the inspiration for the “retributive strike” mechanic in AD&D, that unleashed much whoopass if you’re willing to break a Staff of the Magi…
Nope. Actually he used his staff and his subtle power to shatter that ancient stone bridge* and send the Balrog plummeting. Sadly the Balrog’s whip got Gandalf.
To quote the Great Red Dragon*, “Never play an ace when a two will do.”
Gandalf doesn’t “work” like a D&D wizard because he doesn’t have to, and at times in fact, should not. When the Fellowship is attempting the Caradhras pass, Gandalf lights a fire using magic, saying (I don’t remember the exact words), “I’ve just written, ‘Gandalf is here’ in giant letters for anyone who can read them.” In other words, when stealth is the goal (as it is in “Fellowship,” for sure), you don’t go around casting Magic Missile willy-nilly.
And I’d say the stand against the Balrog is the totally kick-ass moment you seek, no matter how you look at it. Gandalf was the only member of the Fellowship who had even the slightest chance of going toe-to-toe with the Balrog - and that’s a group not short on warrior-ish prowess. Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli are all pretty bad-ass, no? And yet Gandalf says, “This foe is beyond any of you.”
from Jeff Smith’s “Bone,” for those who don’t pick up the reference.
I agree with those who say we never get to see how powerful Gandalf is. He uses his full power to fight a Balrog and possibly against the Nazgul at Weathertop. Both battles occur offstage.
I will note, from years of role playing, in general the more flashy a wizard is, the less powerful he is. Think Urgo The Magnificent from Krull. He is long on talk and has almost no power.
And somewhere in the saga, Gandalf has to use a few words of Command–I have no clue what Command is (and I’m sure there’ll be any number of Dopers here soon to tell me!). I always took that bit to mean that Gandalf was very powerful indeed because he had knowledge of this very potent vocabulary and knew how to use it appropriately.
Forgive me, but I can’t help but think that these so called powers the OP refers to are essentially “immature” ones. Isn’t there some legendary warrior that “fights” other contenders by allowing them to tire themselves out an/or uses logic etc to outwit them? Gandalf is like that–he uses his enemies strengths against the enemy (and their weaknesses, too). That’s some powerful shit.
Gandalf serves many purposes in his world. IMO, an angel (in the conventional sense) comes closest to describing him. He is in the world, but not really of it. He advises, guides, and protects. He can harness nature and “lesser” creatures–which he would be the first to say are not lesser at all. He is wise, gentle and good, but can strike with deadly force, if needed.
Bottom line: Gandalf is a mensch. Gamer wizards et al should be so lucky.