I remember that article, but it was original D & D, AD & D had not been published yet.
I think that Aragorn or Legolas could have defeated the Balrog but died in the effort. Neither was any slouch, but powerful lords of their people, akin to Glorfindel in the First Age who defeated a Balrog and fell to his death in the process. Gandalf had a plan: the Balrog knew who and what Gandalf was from the encounter behind the door, and Gandalf knew the Balrog would not simply jump past Gandalf, but plant himself firmly for the fight. Gandalf expected this and planned to destroy the bridge the way he did. Gandalf did not expect to be pulled down.
Neither of them was even CLOSE to that level of power. Aragorn was a direct descendant of the Numenoreans, yes, but the great Numenorean kings were far in the past. The Dunedain of the Third Age were diminished, though not as much as the Gondoreans.
And Legolas was a Sindarin elf. Neither he nor his father had even seen the Trees. He was NOT the equal of Glorfindel. Not even close.
Sorry, that guy did not really exist but you would have loved Fingolfin fighting Melkor.
Neither Legolas or Aragorn were capable of defeating the Balrog. Glorfindel was vastly more powerful and skilled.
Actually Gandalf was distracted by Aragorn and Boromir. They had no clue what they were up against and did not want to leave Gandalf to face it alone. Legolas knew what it was and wanted to get out fast.
When Gandalf whips out the sword and leaps into melee (wearing just his robes), I assume that there’s magic at work, and not just incredible swordsmanship.
He clearly had “showy” magic, like the fireworks at Bilbo’s birthday party. Forget the movie–just the description in the book says those weren’t cardboard and gunpowder.
That was the first thing that came to mind when I read the OP. I don’t remember any D&D/WoW spells that would blast a stone bridge like that. Clearly the Balrog had too much magic resistance for Gandalf to blast him directly, though…
It’s much harder to analyze Merlin as he’s a loose conglomeration of myths from various cultures and centuries. Gandalf is the product of one author, with letters to clarify things.
I think I did earlier though according to Geoffrey of Monmouth, Merlin did raise Stonehenge with his magic. Pretty damn impressive if not to showy. But yes, the other arch-type Wizard that also did not use showy D&D type magic.
I think this needs to be emphasized. Gandalf, when finally in a situation where the rules allowed him to unleash his power, managed a mutual kill against a being capable of routing a colony of dwarves. How many D&D “5th level magic users” could do that ? Balrogs are basically the LOTR version of fallen angels, not minor monsters.
When the Balrog first shows up, as I recall. Gandalf seals a door against it, and the clash collapses it. He says something like “The counterspell was terrible - I had to use a Word of Command.”
Gandalf did break his staff upon the bridge, though. I just checked. He obviously got given a new one (or made one in Lothlorien when Gwaihir carried him there).
Could you explain this? Merlin was, IIRC, from the King Arthur tales, right? What does he have to do with Gandalf and how does one rank wizards with any level of accuracy?
Yeah. It’s worth remembering that Galadriel, the most powerful elf in Middle Earth during the War of the Ring, the only living being to have seen the Trees … barely even rates a mention in the old sagas. She’s just somebody’s little sister.
The Lord of the Rings is all about the corrupting influence of power. Saruman, Boromir, and Denethor all succumb to it. The greatest heroes are the ones who turn away from power when offered it, or who accept it only reluctantly: Bilbo, Frodo, Aragorn, Faramir. Gandalf’s mission is to inspire and guide the people of middle earth. Showing restraint while using power is part and parcel of that mission.
They are in literature and legend the two Wizards that most later Wizards are based on or inspired by. As to ranking them it is impossible, I meant in terms of impact on the Fantasy genre.
I actually pulled out my tattered Player’s Handbook (First Edition, of course) and found three possibilities, all 5th level Magic User spells:
Passwall
Stone Shape
Transmute Rock to Mud
Note that it would require a 9th level Magic User to cast a 5th level spell.
WoW didn’t really have any way to target objects for damage purposes until WotLK. Now, mage spells will damage vehicles and some structures in certain areas, but I haven’t done much experimenting with it yet.
Eh… I just invented a wizard named Marmaduche who can disappear the universe by waving a finger, and is the most powerful Wizard in the history of all wizards by a factor of over a million. Now that this super wizard exists to compare to, why is this infamous Oakbrow Farwalker considered a great wizard?
While she was the most powerful Elf left in Middle Earth, she had grown over the millenium in power and craft and had an Elven Ring. However she was not the last Elf of the Light or Elf that saw the Two Trees. Glorfindel clearly was another and there was quite possible others in Rivendell and the Havens.
Your second part is dead on. Let’s add Sam to those that resisted and Isildur to those that failed.
First of all, Oakie was/is not a wizard at all. He was/is a druid that concentrated primarily on DPS rather than healing. His name was known all across Norrath as one of the most loyal and powerful mortal servants of Karana. So great was his power that he traversed time and space to spread his teachings across this place you non-magical types call earth. His stories brought much mirth to the internet, until that dark day when Sony condoned selling in game money/equipment for real world money. Terrible was the wrath of Oakie. Well, terrible up until the point where he got banned from the official forums, got reinstated the same night, and quit the game forever shortly thereafter. The original Oakie was a half elf. For a short time he lived as a dwarf in a future version of Norrath, and was later reborn yet again as a night elf in the lands of Azzaroth.
Put another way, He is me and I am he and we are the eggman. Goo Goo Ga Joo.
Mate, and I say this as a man who briefly enjoyed Everquest and EQ2, and played WoW for months, as well as DAoC, and is a pretty big nerd all around…
that’s pathetic.
Maybe you’re a young lad. I dunno. But judging a fantasy character by their DPS? My only response to that is: WTF?!
More to the point, who cares? Wizards are Druids, anyway. The weird modern idea of druid as some oddbal nature guardian comes straight from DnD, where, ironically, Bards are almost more like classic druids.
Blah. Anyway, Gandalf was a mighty warrior who had vast knowledge of the world, its peoples, and at least at one point knew every spell ever made by men, dwarves, elves, and probably orcs. This is a world where smiths could make blades of awesome - but subtle - power, and really “magic” in your view never existed. There was Sorcery, the ability of powerful wills to force reality to its wish (and was considered a very, very bad thing to do). Sauron, as well as some of his servants, were capable of this. Mordor, for example, was not wholly natural. What elves and men and swarves did was more like convinving the world to do something, by turning the natural resources to a different use. Sorcery is a brutal rape and beat-down, but others use persuasion and build things up.
As an example, look at the Ring. This thing screwed with everyone nearby. The Ring is Sauron. It tormented Gollum (who was broken by it but not wholly corrupted). It turned Boromir briefly before he regained his senses. Aragorn realized he and his friends had to get away from it or be destroyed by it. That is power. Who cares how much friggin DPS you can do, when you can control everyone anyway?
Then, on the other hand, we have the elven boats. They always stayed upright, were easy to guide, and flowed easily where they were meant to go. A small and handsome item, but not an item meant to corrupt or control.
