lousy neighbours

The BBQ Pit
1

We live in this little compound house with a garden and a little stream that flows through a corner of the house. We’ve lived there for an awfully long time (it has been our land for almost 200 years), and no one exactly bothered about our presence or claimed our land to be theirs… BUT FOR ONE NEIGHBOR.

We’ve lived with this neighbor for a few decades. One day, around 20 years ago, he pops over and tells me, “look, I’ve got this set of papers which says that this eastern corner of your land, is MINE. It’s MINE, and I demand it back”. When asked to show his papers, he refuses to show me and just says that it date backs to around 1500~1600. From what I know it appears that the previous owners of our land had acquired that corner, and from them we got the land.

Of course, we maintained our rights. This guy says “Let’s go to court to fight it out then.” I agree, but I never get the lawyer’s letter, and he didn’t seem to really bother about claiming that corner of land. For over 20 years, he did nothing, except reminding us every now and then that he’s going to get it back from us.

However, recently, he’s been poking his nose around that area that he claims to be his. In fact, recently, I see him looking up and down the fence, trying to pull up the fence and – maybe – trying to change the boundary. Of course, when I question him about it, he feigns ignorance and says that as that land is his he can do whatever he likes about it.

Worse, there’s this stream that flows through our land. We use it to grow our own crops and stuff. Recently, this neighbour had been threatening to block off the stream (since he’s at the upstream and can do so) in the future. This guy’s irrational and somewhat crazy…

What would you do with such a neighbor?!

2

This reminds me a little bit of that movie “Jean de Florette.”

3

What would Tony Soprano do?

4

Put up an electric fence.

Other than that, have surveyors come out and survey the property. Go through all the deeds that were ever issued for the property and get a clear idea of when the transfer of that little corner happened. Present him with the facts and with the bill for the surveying.

5

Isn’t there a stone tablet laying around somewhere that shows it’s yours?

6

Where are you? Laws differ.

7

Many municipalities here in the State have hydro laws and water rights claims. To put it plainly, people can’t muck with water on a whim. There is a process. I suspect it would be the same for you.

In land disputes, it’s best not to give even a centimeter. He may be trying to “Grandfather” the land in, claimin it has been under his control for X amount of years.

The best answer is to beat him to the punch, and get a survey done. Then, post a few “No Tresspassing” signs on the plot, aiming right at him. :smiley:

8

The only thing you can really do is determine the facts via a lawyer’s title seach and a professional survey. This is likely to cost a bit of change depending on the size of your property and the complexity of the title but it should be doable for less than
$ 2,000 in most cases unless your acreage is huge.

Since he is so interested in this determination ask him if he will split the cost on this and get it in writing if he is agreeable.

9

The laws regarding fencing vary from state to state – check on the law in your area. What I’d do here in Florida may be similar to the tools at your disposal.

Since he claims that the land is his, you can force him to prove his claim:

As much as I hate them, put up “No Trespassing” signs. The first time that he crosses the fence he’s guilty of misdemeanor trespass. Cross all the T’s and dot all the I’s and each subsequent trespass is criminal. If he attempts to alter the fence or signs in any way, all sorts of fun laws come into play. And it will be his responsibility to prove that he has not broken the law by proving that the land is his.

Any attempt by your neighbor to restrict the water flowing toward your property without all of the necessary permits (or to sabotage the quality of the water) is a violation of many environmental laws.

Of course, the OP used the spelling “neighbour”, suggesting that you’re not in the U.S. If so, you’d better check with your local legal experts, which really applies no matter where you live.
SS

10

[slight hijack]

If you want to know what it’s like to have really lousy neighbors, go here.

It’s a site where a guy details the antics of his “redneck neighbor,” including pictures of some of the neighbor’s hilarious home-improvement stunts.

It’s extremely funny, and rather scary.

[/slight hijack]

11

Sounds like a question for IMHO, not really the pit, but then again I’m not a mod. I’m sorry for this too, but 1500-1600? Didnt the first people land here in Virginia in 1607? Or am I mistaken?

12

(Disclaimer: I am in NO WAY a real estate lawyer.)
Depending on where you are, you may have title to the land under “adverse possession”. Essentially, that says that if you have encroached on a person’s property, improved it, paid taxes on it, etc… with no opposition from that person for a significant length of time, then as far as the state is concerned, it is yours.

Now this is not intended to be a license to steal land – my reading of it is that it’s exactly for this kind of dispute where property lines have been assumed to be correct for many years and one part has improved upon that property (e.g., built fences, sheds, gardens). Having a second party claim that land based on some ancient deed would be disruptive to everyone.

Anyway, the term (in Massachusetts, USA) for adverse possession is 20 years, so I think your 200 years of using the land would trump the discovery of some ancient deed (IN Massachusetts). Your locale may differ.

13

Yet more evidence that the OP does not live in the U.S. Many Dopers do not don’t ya know.

14

Bill him for back taxes for 200 years.

:smiley:

15

Plus interest, late fees and for your time. Plus more interest of course. :wink:

16

IANAL either, but the law of Adverse Possession as described by Finagle has a time of only 15 years here in Australia (IIRC).
Although you say that the land has been in your family for many generations, I imagine that if there was a legal transfer of title to you, (that you technically purchased the land) and the neighbour noted the discrepancy 20 years ago, he may be within his rights to apply for reinstatement of the land to his title.

I have no idea about water rights though.

17

As a couple others have advised, get a survey. Explain the problem to the surveyor. They’ll have someone go through titles and check whatever other public records might be relevant. It will, as previous posters have mentioned, cost a chunk of change, but it will be worth it. At least around here, if the surveyor doesn’t find pre-existing monumentation at the corners of your property, s/he will put some in (usually by driving a piece of rebar into the ground at the right spot). Have the crew chief show you where those corners are, if you’re there when they’ve finished the survey.* Then you’ll know exactly where your boundaries are, and be able to back it up with the neighbor.

If buying land where you are is anything like around here, there was probably a survey done when you bought the property, and one done when your neighbor bought theirs. Those surveys, which say exactly what was purchased, and are usually part of the papers involved in the purchase, are, I would think, more applicable to the location of the boundary today than an old document that might predate any later changes. (And in fact, your deed and the deed of your neighbor’s property ought to contain descriptions of what was purchased.) I don’t know all the legal ins and outs of that, though–a good land surveyor probably will be able to answer questions like that.

(IANAL, but I did used to work on a surveying crew. )
*When I was doing surveying field work, we always put a stake with some flagging on it at the property corners so the property owner would be able to find them–folks couldn’t always be home when we were able to show them. A co-worker of mine told me that occasionally he’s run across neighbors who move those marking stakes, thinking they’re moving the monumentation, and they think they can actually move the property lines that way. Some people…)

18

If he’s messing with your fence, and screwing around on your property, couldn’t you call the police?

19

No, really, I have heard that. Now, don’t get me wrong–I’m a skeptical sort, so I’m aware that perhaps this “possible to train one’s dog” thing is purely hearsay, a modern myth, an urban legend. I have seen well-trained dogs–my best friends’ great loveable moose of a Golden, family canines from the past, that neighbor of a couple blocks westerly who walks his German Shepherd entirely leashlessly–but I’m also willing to grant that anecdotes don’t necessarily add up to data.

But, we’re both adults. For the sake of discussion, let us assume–purely for the sake of pursuing the discussion, not as an axiom henceforth and forever–that it is, in fact, possible to train one’s dog. Can we do that, you and I?

Good, I knew I could count on you to meet me halfway. Now that we’ve established that, I’d like to take my stance one step further: not only is it possible to train one’s dog, it is desireable and rewarding to train one’s dog.

“But she’s so cuuute!” you might protest. “She’s loveable just as she is!” Please note that I am not disputing the cuteness of your pet. I have seen your pet; she is indeed–as small breeds go–a cute dog. Further, I am not disputing that she is deserving of a pet-owner’s love and care. The revolutionary idea that I am proposing, however, is that part of a dog-owner’s love and care for their animal shall be to train it.

“But I doooo,” you may complain. And I will grant that intent is an important factor in judging anyone’s actions, not merely consequences. I grant that you may believe that you are attempting to train your animal.

I don’t claim to be an expert trainer, mind you. And largely, I try to view how people train their own pets to be their business and not mine, so long as how they do doesn’t involve cruelty. And I do hasten to add that I’m not accusing you of anything near animal abuse, merely a nearly superhuman lack of aptitude.

I did not come to this conclusion hastily. Simply a few dozen iterations of the following mini-drama:

Dog: YAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAP! YAP! YAP! YAPYAPYAPYAP!
You: <silence>
Dog: YAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAP!!!
You: <in old SNL “Whiner Family” voice> doooooon’t.
Dog: YAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAP! BARKBARKYAP!
You: Stooooooooop iiiit!
Dog: YAPYAPBARKBARKYAP!

…over the course of single night is not, in itself, enough to have driven me to my conclusion regarding your focus and aptitude in dog-training. That same play, along with minor variations, repeated several times per night, each night, every week, for close to five months now is, however, starting to make me inquire in deep despair of God how the fuck it is fair that you be able to practice the horrible deception of HAVING OPPOSABLE THUMBS AND WALKING UPRIGHT!

Ahem. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to raise my voice. I do still wonder about the opposable thumbs, though. Are they really yours? You grew them, you didn’t get high-quality strap-on prosthetic ones? Astonishing.

Now, like I say, I’m no expert animal trainer. So this advice may be taken as only that of a slightly out-of-practice amateur in the field. It’s like this: whining at your dog, in a pleading broken-down voice that’s the auditory equivalent of having a “kick me” sign tacked permanently onto your sloping forehead, to please stop what it is it’s doing, after it’s been engaged in said undesireable behavior for several minutes non-stop already, is going to work about as well as trying to boil water using a fucking ice cube. Which is to say–follow me closely here–NOT AT ALL.

All I’m saying is that it’s starting to get on my nerves, an eensy teensy amount. It’s doing so even moreso than your bi-weekly shrill screaming Whinerfights with Boyfriend Number Umpty, which I suppose is an accomplishment.

I don’t blame your dog, mind you. I’m pretty sure the animal’s salvageable, should anyone ever actually devote some time and attention and effort at the poor beast. So when I do snap, I’m not going to take it out on the pooch. Do you have a will made out? I know, you’re young, a will is the furthest thing from your mind, which is far more concerned with the next time for getting gigglydrunk, or planning strategems for your next shrill screaming whinerfight. But it may be a good thing to start planning out.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Your downstairs neighbor,
Drastic

20

Well bloody hell. I coulda sworn I’d hit new thread instead of post reply there. Nothing for it but to whine at myself to please stooop iiiiit.

Sorry bout that.