My neighbor is a complete asshole about property lines.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I bought my current house in August 2010. Right after buying it, the guy who owns the adjacent property came over and asked me not to use his fence as part of my fenced yard, but to build a new fence two feet in between my property and his, so he could get his mower in to the grass between our property lines. The property marker clearly shows that his fence runs right along his property line, but to be new-neighborly, I complied.

So not wanting to make waves and because I figured no big deal, if he wants to mow an extra 24" of my yard, more power to him. He has always been a somewhat unpleasant person but our lots are large so I have minimal interaction. I wave when I go by but that is about it. And for the record, the 24" between our fences is not getting mowed by him, so WTF.

This evening, a friend and his grandsons were over, and at one point one of the kids was over along the fence that separates our properties. He was petting my dog over the fence. And the asshole neighbor comes out and starts yelling that the kid (who is nine years old) is trespassing and to get the fuck off their property. Seriously? As long as the kid was within two feet of my fence (which he was) he was actually on MY property.

But we (another neighbor, myself and the grandad) decided to quickly diffuse the situation by calling the kid over. The neighbors are armed and weird. In fact the other neighbor just called me to say, WTF was that all about? And I have absolutely no clue. I keep my lawn mowed and my house presentable. My dogs are not out and barking when I am not home (unlike Asshole Neighbor, actually.) I really don’t think there is a legitimate reason that makes me a bad neighbor.

I am a single female and really do not want to make enemies in my sparsely-populated neighborhood. My first inclination was to start yelling back at Asshole Neighbor, but my friend cautioned against that. I’m really pissed off right now, but also really pragmatic.

Was I a wuss for simply de-escalating? How much “is this mountain worth fighting for” is reasonable? Do I want to take pictures of the property line marker and make an issue of this? Because I most certainly can.

Ugh. Why can’t people just be reasonable human beings.

2

IANAL blah blah blah…

In regards to the two feet of space in between your yards, you need to remove the fence you put up and start using that part of your property. ISTR a provision in the law that says if your neighbor starts to maintain that area for a certain period of time he can actually take claim to it and there is nothing you can do about it. Again, I am definitely not a lawyer and I may be talking out my ass about this one.

Besides, who the hell is he to tell you how you can use your yard? If he doesn’t like it let him put up a new fence. Or, better yet, take down the fence you put up and instead plant some bushes on your property along the fence. This provides what seems to be a much needed visual separation between you and your batshit insane neighbor.

3

Note that if you essentially ceded those 2 feet on the far side of your fence and he is maintaining it, it can become his property. Adverse Possession.

4

Probably not. If you grant permission the use is not “adverse”.

5

I love that in Arizona, the standard is a tall (5-6 ft, typically) fence between lots, often cinderblock. To people back east, in the fenceless zone, it probably looks like we all must think we are Masters of our tiny fiefdoms, or fearful gun-totin’ loners, walling ourselves off from the big bad world. But when I read stories like these, I hug my wall. Figuratively.

Good fences make good neighbors.

6

Neighbor sounds potentially mentally ill, to me.

7

I am confused by this? Was it your friend’s kid and your dog? Were they on opposite sides of the fence? Why? Was the kid (or dog) on a strip of land, that is yours, between your fence and his?

8

Well, in regards to the adverse possession rule, on reading that link he doesn’t qualify. I did not publically give him permission, I am actually paying taxes on that two feet, he is not maintaining or using it…and since he is not mowing it I can start doing so and therefore maintain ownership.

I guess my question was more “Am I being a wuss, and at what point should I start making an official enemy out of my neighbor when I would rather just not make waves” question? Because I clearly own that two feet. I am willing to maintain it and I am paying taxes on it.

I suppose I could rip down my existing fence and extend my property to its legal boundary. That would put the branches of the two fruit trees he planted on the line last year mine…all mine. It would also be declaring war, and I guess I hate the idea of confrontation and making permanent enemies out of my neighbors.

On the other hand he is being an asshole, so why should I care?

9

Bingo!
The common-law period was 7 years - remove that encroaching fence and re-establish the original fence as the de-facto property line.

10

I’d get a restraining order against the neighbor if he had a weapon with him while yelling at the kid. This guy is a serious nutcase. See a lawyer about your fence, which is a problem with adverse possession as others have stated. You were absolutely right to de-escalate. He is a dangerous man.

11

Yes, yes, and yes.
Why, because the kids were on one side of the fence picking (my) tomatoes and the dog was in my yard on the other side of the fence. The kid was on the two feet of yard that is, actually, mine.

12

He did not actually have a firearm on hand while yelling at my friend’s grandkid; I just know he carries (and in general I do not have a problem with that.)

But I am now thinking that I should get an assessor out here to confirm the property line and at very least have a legal confirmation of such. Because the more I think about it, the less I feel like being bullied. And, I am paying the fucking taxes on that 24 inches x 150 feet!

13

I honestly can’t imagine why you moved the fence to begin with, that seems like a bizarre request and I’d never spend the money to give up two feet of my property just to make it easier for someone else to mow their lawn. If my neighbor asked me to do that when I first moved in I probably would have, nicely said (even if I didn’t know) “I assume the fence is on the property line so I don’t want to move it further into my yard”.

Anyways, if you want to move the fence back, and you have the extra money to do so, I’d call the city/county and have them come out and spray paint the property line and get a permit to put up a new fence (so you know you’re putting it exactly where it can legally go) and put up a wooden privacy fence as high as you can legally make it. You might also encourage his other neighbors to do the same. If he asks you can say “after that incident last week I just wanted to make sure my kids/dog don’t wander into your yard by accident again”. You might consider extending the fence all the way past the front of the house to the sidewalk/street so you don’t even have to see him. But check with the city (when you get the permit they’ll tell you), that’s not always allowed. In my city a fence can’t extend past the front of the house.

ETA, if he asks you, you could (lie) say that you were talking to a lawyer friend and he told you that since you moved the fence after a certain amount of time you’ll legally forfeit that property to him and he advised you to move the fence back to the property line sooner rather than later.

If you don’t want to seem confrontation about it, do it in spring so he doesn’t think it’s about this incident.

14

You can’t make a permanent enemy out of him - he’s already declared that he is one.

I’d take back the two feet. If there’s any question, then “you said you were going to mow it, but you haven’t. It’s my property and I’m going to maintain it.”

I think rather than taking the fence down on your side, I’d plant a row of shrubbery between the fences. Perhaps leaving just enough of a gap for the fruit tree branches. Which are yours, if they’re reaching into your yard.

15

Thanks Joey P.
There was no fence when I bought the place; I added it because I have dogs. My local regulations are like yours and a privacy fence cannot extend past the front on the house but it’s fine if it’s chain-link and less than 5’ high.

The more I think about this incident the more pissed off I am getting. I think I will get some sort of sure-fire legal determination of the property boundary (besides the old cast-iron marker that currently exists) and as funds allow, bump my fence out to his.

I really wish he was the sort of person I could reason with, but his demeanor has been hostile since I moved here so I don’t know how to even start with being nice. I don’t know why. My other neighbors are great and have made this a nice place to live; I’ve become good friends. This guy has been an asshole right from the start.

16

You’re right, thanks!

It’s not all about the two feet, for me. It was about compromise. Which he is not about.

Mmm, Raspberries. :slight_smile:

17

I think I’m confused about what fences existed to begin with and what you put up, but no matter, that’s what I’d do.
Have the city spray the property line (make sure they do it if you can, so it’s very obvious that it’s official)
Get the permit, so there’s no legal issues with the height or placement.
Put up the privacy fence from the back of the lot to the front of the house. This is probably going to be a few grand.
You could probably hold off on removing the old one to save money if you need to. Also, depending on the type of fence and how it’s in the ground, you might even be able to pull it your yourself.
Finally, I wouldn’t waste your money on a fence in the front yard. That suggestion was just so you couldn’t see each other, period. A chain link fence or shrubs will cost money and not accomplish anything.

18

I agree with Cell Guy: remove the fence and essentially reclaim your property line. Adverse Possession should be a concern, regardless of the intricacies of the legal system. You’ve just encountered one of the many property owners who jealously guard their tuff. Indeed, I am one of them. I agree that your neighbor has been a prick, what with “his” fence being on the property line, and desiring to maintain beyond it. But you need to assert yourself. If indeed “his” fence is on the property line it becomes a defacto boundary and you have no obligation to accommodate his desire to maintain property beyond it. I urge you to assert, by whatever means are available to you, that your property will remain your property.

19

It’s a surveyor, not an assessor. And see a lawyer. There are some good ideas in this thread, but good counsel can give you a road map of the obstacles to come. I’ve dealt with a lot of neighbors like yours for clients, and keeping a low profile truly helps. He is nuts.

20

Not exactly the same situation, but I’ve posted about my own horrifically unpleasant new-ish neighbor here, too. (Short version: Elderly man, lives alone, there are only six houses on this entire mile-long dirt road, and his is the only one within sight of my house. Mr. Congeniality hates us, hates our kids, hates our dogs, and apparently became accustomed to using the lot we bought as his own before we purchased the land and put in a modular home. He hates kids, dogs, noise, etc. We sited our home as far away from his as possible, don’t leave our dogs out to bark, have good fences, don’t let our kids bother anyone. Mr. Congeniality has cussed at me and at my husband, removed a no-trespassing sign that was put up, on a post on our side of the property line before we bought the land and obviously targeting Mr. C - it wasn’t visible from the road or driveway, only pointing at Mr. C’s house., and even went so far as to intentionally cut our phone/internet cable this past May. We filed a police report at the time, as did our utility company. Since then, we haven’t heard the first word from Mr. C.)

I can’t really offer you much advice, because our situations are similar enough for me to empathize, but different enough that our approach might not work well for you. I don’t worry about an 80-ish man causing me any physical harm, and I’m sure I’m better-armed than he is. Plus, my own husband is a deputy sheriff, albeit not in the county where we live, so I knew that when we called someone to take the report, they’d remind the unpleasant old coot that, if he tried to do anything stupid, that (a) testimony from a sworn police officer would carry a certain amount of weight, and (b) if someone were to intentionally cause harm to our dogs (say, putting some sort of poisoned food in their yard,) that it wouldn’t be a property crime - in Georgia, intentionally causing harm to a police K9 is considered a misdemeanor of “high and aggravated nature.” Of course, they couched it as “I’m sure you wouldn’t even consider such a thing, since there are also small children that play in that back yard, and your neighbors kindly left a 40-foot space between their own fence and the property line, so you wouldn’t even have cause to accidentally be near their fence.”

I think, if it were me in your situation, I’d warn any visiting children not to go into that 2-foot area; but I and any adult visitors would make it a habit to be right there messing around as often as possible. Or I’d plant very thorny shrubs in the void…