Our house has a small back yard surrounded by a fence. A really crappy fence that’s slowly falling down. We share our crappy fence with four other neighbors–one main one (large section) and one secondary one (smaller section) in the back, and two more on either side.
We’d like to replace the fence, but we have some issues and aren’t quite sure how to proceed:
We’re quiet types and don’t really know our neighbors. We say ‘hi’ to the ones on either side when we see them, but that’s about it. Don’t know the back ones at all. I’m pretty sure one of the back ones doesn’t speak English.
I’m a little apprehensive about asking total strangers to help pay for the fence (proportionate to how much of their property it covers) but on the other hand I don’t want to buy the neighbors a fence, either. I mean, they’d be well within their rights to say, “Hey, the fence is sort of still standing–why would I want to pay to replace it?”
Assuming we did ask them and they agreed, how does one handle the logistics? I don’t trust them to handle the money and don’t expect them to trust me, either, since we don’t know each other. What if we can’t agree on a design? What if one of them has an uncle or somebody who builds fences on the side (but doesn’t have a contractor’s license) and is adamant about having him do the work?
Yeah, I’m overly paranoid about this. It’s been bothering me for awhile now, and it’s really bothering the spouse, who’s getting sick of looking at our crappy fence.
Any suggestions? This seems like it should be a fairly common problem since fences are often shared…maybe I’m missing the obvious solution here.
I own some duplexes so I’ve had to deal with this a time or two. My fences are just the standard cedar and treated pine privacy types, but if you are planning something on a grand scale, my experience may not be that helpful.
I generally start by getting a contractor or two to give me an estimate for doing my entire fence and then approach the neighbors to see if they would be interested in sharing the cost for any shared stretches. Since the estimates usually come in the X dollars per linear foot, the neighbors can decide if they want the rest of their fence done also.
As far as the money goes, the checks will be made out to the fence contractor so there’s not much “trust” that is really needed between the neighbors. Indeed you can expect the contractor to help you with the logistics.
I’ve always just gone with the existing design, so that’s never been an issue.
Fence building doesn’t require the level of skills of a plumber, electrician, or house carpenter, so the lack of a license wouldn’t be a concern to me.
There may be one or two of your neighbors that don’t want to go along with the new fence, and there’s not much you can do about that. Be prepared to pay for those stretches yourself.
This is probably not going to be as big a deal as you are fearing. Indeed it will probably be a great opportunity to actuially get to know some of your neighbors.
I went thru this a few years ago. My neighbor is a class-1 a-hole, so I just paid for the thing myself.
Nice guy that I am :), I had it built as a “good neighbor” fence-- the design looks exactly the same from either side so no one can complain about getting the ugly side. You might consider this as an option. I don’t think it cost signifcantly more.
There came a time when we built a fence separating us from one of our neighbors. We knew exactly where the property line ran (since we helped survey the land and placed steel reinforcing rods at each significant point and topped by 3-inch diameter steel pipes). We built the fence exactly four inches inside the property line. The only maintenance to the fence was maintaining the ground underneath it (it was a split-rail cedar fence).
When those neighbours moved to greener pastures, the new neighbours attempted to develop the garden over the property line. A few repeated, and polite, requests went unheeded. Only when we threatened legal action did they change their attitude.
The point is we bought and paid for our fence on our property. We maintained it ourselves and vigorously maintained/defended our four-inch turf outside of the fence. Having the original survey plans and knowing where every survey stake helped quite a bit.
Second what Duckster says. Where are the property lines? And where is the existing fence in relation to said lines? The fence might not be on your property.
In my neighborhood, a little subdivision that spraing up about 40 years ago, the logic of the fences is astoundingly simple.
Every house on my block has a fenced back yard. The yards are all oriented with sides that roughly lie on compass directions. My house faces south, and so my backyard has a fence along its east, west, and north sides, plus small segments of fence that go to the back of the house to close the square.
Every person on my street owns the fence on the west side of their yard, including the part the runs to that side of the house, as well as the small connector that runs from the house to the neighbor’s western property line fence.
Every person on the street behind mine owns the fences that make up the northern lines of my street’s yards. So out of the 3.5 sides of my yard, I own 1.5 of them (west and south parts). My neighbors behind me end up with 2.5 parts of fence (their southern, eastern, and northern (house) parts).
It’s a fair system…everyone’s situation is just like everyone else’s. They’re all chain link, so ugly sides don’t really matter. A couple people have replaced their segments with privacy fence, and anyone could certainly build a better looking fence on their side of the neighbor’s if they cared to. But in general, the above is how it works.
I assume it’s not like this everywhere, but my neighborhood’s system seems to prevent any disputes. You know what’s yours, plain and simple.
Why in the world did you do that? It seems that approach is guaranteed to bring about the kind of spat that it did. Does this mean that the neighbors can’t hang a bird feeeder on your fence? What if they want to resod? Are they required to let that four inch strip grow up in weeds? What were you thinking?
I moved into a new (for me) house in the late 70’s. The back was fenced. After I’d been living there about a week, I met the neighbor who lived behind me. We were both in the back yards at the time. He informed me that the fence had actually been built 6 inches inside my property line, that he was having to mow and care for 6 inches of my property and that I needed to move the fence (6 inches). I told him I would look into the matter.
He later planted 4 or 5 tomato plants and tied them to the fence. Since they were on my property, one day when I was treating the yard with chemicals, I poisoned them. Never did move the fence.
Re: Bnorton “What were you thinking?” -I recently put up a block wall and did the same sort of thing. I did it to prevent any property disputes like what happened to my parents when their neighbor convinced my father to share the cost of a block wall. The guy they hired did a crappy job with crappy materials and the wall deteriorated rapidly. The neighbor decided to move and was told the wall needed to be repaired/replaced in order to make the property a more easy sale. My dad, a true sucker, gave the neighbor half, ~$1250, to have it repaired. Care to guess what the neighbor/seller did? The neighbor moved and gave the buyer a $2500 credit to have it fixed. Do you really need to guess whose wall still needs repair?
My situation: My neighbors property actually sits about 10 inches below mine and is/was separated by 2 levels of Railroad ties. These ties are centered on the property line and I used them as my reference for the concrete footing which actually is 6" deeper than bottom tie. Made it easy to dig the footings and ensure they were true. Do I care what they do on their side of my wall even though it is on my property? No, provided it doesn’t damage the wall.
Duckster, as a former land surveyor, it brings joy to my heart to read you put your fence four inches AWAY from your property line instead of right on it. How much easier the job would be if everyone did that. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
I’m so glad to hear that as I am just about to erect a fence and was planning to come a few inches inside the property line to ensure no future boundary disputes. I’ve got over an acre - I can handle giving away a 4 inch strip each side. I was quite shocked to find earlier posters suggesting that this was a bad idea.
I agree it’s best to put the fence a few inches on your side of the property line. Just curious as to how Duckster’s neighbors are using that 4 inch strip of land that Duckster owns on the other side of the fence. What did they want to do, plant one row of carrots on his side? I’ve never had anything that close to a fence that I wanted to grow and darned if I see how you can maintain such a narrow strip.
As far as why to erect 4" inside, if you are sinking the posts in concrete, the concrete must be on your property as well as the posts and pickets. The outermost edge of the concrete filled hole should not extend over the property line.
Also, erring an inch or 2 to the inside makes it all the more unlikely that a new owner will come along with a new survey saying you are encroaching on his property by an inch or 2 and need to remove the offending fence. Unless your yard is truly postage-stamp sized, I would consider the peace of mind worth the loss of negligible real estate.
As far as poisoning a neighbor’s tomato plants, you don’t have to do anything more to “defend” your 4" than give your neighbor your permission. Using it with your permission, he obtains no title.
Hell, who wants to be responsible for trimming any grass and weeds that grow on the 4" outside of your fence? And how are you going to do it if your neighbor forbids you access to his property to do the trimming?
It is hard to believe someone being so petty as to complain about mowing a 6" swath. But I do believe it, as it often seems like pettiness spawns the worst neighbor disputes. If the neighbor complained about mowing the 6", I’d poison the grass and lay down gravel or flagstones right up to the property line. Hell, probably have the fucker participate in the process and sign appropriate papers to guard against any future disputes.
As far as good side/bad side, I always thought that if it is my fence, I wanted to see the inside structure. Otherwise, it would look like it was my neighbor’s fence. Just my opinion, tho.
I think you will be doing future property owners a favor by erecting the fence on one side of the line or the other. Will make it easier for future owners. I would imagine maintenance/replacement issues being far more troublesome for a fence right on the property line. Both owners would have to agree to get anything done. If it is on your property, you can do with it what you wish. Of course, you have to pay for it yourself as well. If it is on your neighbor’s property, you can either ask him to let you take it down and build a new one on your property, or you can just leave his up and build your own on your side of the property.
Or do what I’m going to do … put up bushes and friendlyfrence (we are going to be in a HOA community with 3X5 card lots instead of postage stamps where we are now) that can be up or down but still keep critters out.
They complain about the fence, take it down or move it incrementally. They don’t like the bushes, they can trim their side.
Check with town hall - even though there is a fence there now, regulations might have changed about the allowable materials, height and distances from property lines. Here where I live you cannot have a fence between houses higher than 4 feet without a varience, and the “backside” must face your house, not the neighbors. Make sure that it is inside your property line - you might run into all sorts of problems when you want to sell your house.
Thanks, everybody, for the info. I didn’t even think about the “ugly side” problem. (I didn’t realize fences even have ugly sides, though in our case I’m pretty sure both sides are the same (and they’re both ugly!))
Our backyard is postage-stamp sized, so I wouldn’t want to give up any of our property. I guess it’s time to consult a professional to find out what the laws are in our area.
I screwed up the nerve to ask my neighbors (after being advised agianst doing so by many) and all three of them agreed to pay their own share. Boy, was I happily surprised. Two of the three neighbors also continued to finish the rest of their yards and everyone paid the fence contractor separately.
The house I bought had been empty for a while and had fallen into a state of mild to moderate disrepair. Maybe the neighbors were just very happy to have someone move in.
