See query.
I was thinking of the physics of the whiplash (the snap of a whip being the moment when the tail tip breaks the speed of sound) and extrapolating to doggies.
I initially analogized that the whacking of a big-'ol dog tail should not be immediately ruled out as generically slower–as I originally figured–because the musculature of the Tail Muscle (its official name by me) and the supporting anatomy scales with the mass of the dog.
But then you get these dogs–and I include the naturally "docked’ nubbin waggers–who could churn cream into butter, and I lose the trail of the scaling factor number, and wonder if there is one.
Any ideas, both empirically and, in the spirit of my introduction, on anatomical engineering?
As a first take, I would assume that wagging a full-size tail at whip-cracking velocity would hurt, while moving a nubbin would not.
ETA to OP above: regarding the whip analogy–I know see that is incorrect as to frequency of impulse of the stock and the ensuing travel of the whip as a whole relative to speed of the decreasing mass of the whip given a certain impulse. And the scaling for the dog wag of eg, a heavier whip as to simple impulse may be analogous, but the rate of expending all that energy simply to wag the damn thing once (which by scaling is available) can not be conserved quickly over time for a re-coup biologically (muscle) for another whip, when the little buggers are wagging away multiple times already.
Can somebody lay out the math for this? I believe it’s fairly elementary, but I can’t identify analytically how to say it.
Good point, but not strictly germane. But as with all doggie threads, welcome.
Plus, it is not clear to me that the shock wave at the tail tip of the Very Big Dogs would be appreciable to the Tail, as opposed to the contactee.
OP again: my apologies to Folacin (and I’m sure he was seething and expecting it) for saying his response was not strictly germane.
I see my OP hed was muddied as I riffed on it in the post, a not unusual occurrence with me.
Although in my defense, I did write Hz, meaning rate of wag was my primary interest. But since it might as well be included, OP now is:
- Which dogs have the highest rate of wags (one complete back and forth of the base)?
- Which dogs have the fastest velocity at tail tip during a wag?
- Which dog tails generate the highest energy at the peak of the tail whip over time?
Jeez another ETA, on query #3:
If anatomical scaling is not a thing a lighter tail whipped faster could have far greater energy per wag at the time the whip snaps, so (as I previously assumed) the dog with the most massive tail is not the necessary winner.
So the revised OP is:
- Which dogs have the highest rate of wags (one complete back and forth of the base)?
- Which dogs have the fastest velocity at tail tip during a wag?
3A: Which dog tails generate the highest energy at the peak of the tail whip over time?
3B: Which dog tails generate the highest instantaneous energy at the peak of the tail whip?
I expect that there would be too much variation between breeds, and even between dogs within a breed, for any sort of scaling argument to be particularly useful. I’m not even certain that all dogs use the same muscles to wag: My mom’s current dog, for instance, mostly wags by curling and uncurling his tail, rather than side to side. But to the extent that there would be any scaling law, I would expect the energy of the wag to be roughly proportional to the mass of the wagging muscles, and the mass of the wagging muscles to be roughly proportional to the total mass of the dog.
I’m not convinced that dogs have a significant number of pain receptors in their tails. My first dog wagged so hard against the furniture and walls that he’d bleed, and splatter blood all over the place, but it still left him happy enough that he’d keep on wagging.
Dogs which have hairy tails are right out (labs, for example). My sister-in-law got her Rottweiler’s tail docked because it really hurts to get tail whipped by a Rottweiler. Supposedly they have a tendency to get tail injuries.
Ok, whoa, and this is all Folacin’s fault. Insofar as OP can direct the the thread (which is not far at all), and since it is still an embryo (there’s an image for mods), forget about the damn pain-if-a-dog-could-snap-its-tail-like-a-bullwhip."
Let’s get back to the biokinematics.
Or start anew thread on that, which actually seems to have been tentatively explored, in a general sense, I’ve found after Google Scholaring the topic in the meantime with decidedly mixed results on this OP. Will report anon.
We have two Border Collies. One wags so ferociously that her entire back end wags with her tail. The other one has a slower wag that seems isolated from her body (her rump doesn’t swing around like the other one).
There may be more variation between individuals than between breeds, for all I know.
I don’t believe the tip of the tail in any wagging dog comes anywhere near the speed of sound. For one thing, I’ve never seen a dog crack the tip of its tail like a whip. I don’t believe tails serve any defensive or offensive purpose in dogs. They have evolved into signalling tools and may help balance the dog in some ways when running, even if some animals DO use their tails as weapons.
My tink Yorkie (short tail) wags really fast. We call it her ‘boat motor’. Boy it goes.
My house Beagles tail goes straight up when her nose is on the ground, and it quivers really fast, not sure if that’s really a wag.
All dogs tails are different.
There’s not a way to judge this with any reliability. IMO.
The Mini-Dachshund’s tail whips so fast you can hardly see it. Very thin and aerodynamic, almost like a rat’s tail. Gotta be high on the list.