LSU - Bama II

[mkecane]

@Oakminster

Alabama only had one penalty last night.

And boy was Saban pissed! One minute from a perfect game, and then an offside (I think, anyway).

I missed the first couple series for LSU, but I thought they should have hammered up the middle with Spencer Ware more. He’s impressed me with his straight ahead running this season. Alabama was fast, so it’s one way to negate speed. Maybe the Bama DTs and MLBs were just too good, though. The LSU special teams didn’t impress last night, either (except for the blocked fg). I think they used them to good effect a lot this year.

[Xema]

@markdash

But LSU played so terribly that I think another highly-ranked team would be expected to perform better almost by default.

Seems entirely possible. But what bizarre selection system could have kept LSU out of that game?

[Xema]

@markdash

Based on what I saw in the bowl games, Oklahoma State should be #2, and LSU #3. I don’t see how you can argue it any other way.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard the argument that final rankings should depend exclusively on the results of bowl games. I’ve only ever heard that about the NC game - and of course the justification is that this game claims to match #2 against #1.

Of course, teams should be ranked not just how they performed in their last game, but in all of their games, perhaps with slight emphasis on what happened down the stretch.

This is certainly the mainstream view.

[markdash]

@Xema

I don’t think I’ve ever heard the argument that final rankings should depend exclusively on the results of bowl games. I’ve only ever heard that about the NC game - and of course the justification is that this game claims to match #2 against #1.

This is certainly the mainstream view.

That was in response to the poster who was complaining about “all the OSU talk” (presumably the desire to have OSU in the game instead of Alabama) by referring to their performance in the Fiesta Bowl. Well, OSU didn’t look bad in the Fiesta, but more to the point, you can’t use a team’s performance in their bowl to justify their participation in said bowl. Just because a team gets blown out doesn’t necessarily make their presence their any less justified.

Obvious points, I would think.

[RaftPeople]

@markdash

That was in response to the poster who was complaining about “all the OSU talk” (presumably the desire to have OSU in the game instead of Alabama) by referring to their performance in the Fiesta Bowl. Well, OSU didn’t look bad in the Fiesta, but more to the point, you can’t use a team’s performance in their bowl to justify their participation in said bowl. Just because a team gets blown out doesn’t necessarily make their presence their any less justified.

My “OSU talk” was to primarily to rebut the people calling for OSU to get a split NC.

But I disagree that you can’t use the bowl games to determine if your pre-bowl analysis was correct. The bowl games give you a little more data, and OSU’s neutral performance against a good team compared to Alabama’s good performance against a good team shows me that Alabama was probably correctly picked over OSU.

[markdash]

@RaftPeople

My “OSU talk” was to primarily to rebut the people calling for OSU to get a split NC.

But I disagree that you can’t use the bowl games to determine if your pre-bowl analysis was correct. The bowl games give you a little more data, and OSU’s neutral performance against a good team compared to Alabama’s good performance against a good team shows me that Alabama was probably correctly picked over OSU.

It’s more data, but the variance involved in a single game make it wildly inaccurate. WVU dominated in their bowl game, but I am not about to say they should have played in a different bowl because of it. The only thing you can use to judge whether a team should play in Bowl X was their resume prior to Bowl X.

As a favorite example, my alma mater (California) was edged out by Texas in the running for the Rose Bowl in 2005. As a result, Cal played in the Holiday Bowl, where we were handily defeated by Texas Tech. Some used this to argue that Cal was never worthy to play in the Rose Bowl. I would debate this point–prior to their Bowl game, Cal’s resume was definitely Rose-worthy. Does the ensuing loss invalidate all that had happened before? Of course, this is leaving aside the issues of motivation or a “letdown,” which could have caused Cal to play worse than expected in the HB (if applicable).

[RaftPeople]

I think you and I will probably just have to disagree on this one.

If there were a system with clear objective criteria, then I would agree with you, you can’t change the rules after the fact. But given the subjective nature of this whole thing (people’s opinion determines who gets into the NC), then I think it’s reasonable to use the bowl game as additional data to see if your previous opinion seems to be correct.

[quixotic78]

@markdash

The only thing you can use to judge whether a team should play in Bowl X was their resume prior to Bowl X.

I wholeheartedly agree. I still think Okie State should have been in the NCG instead of Bama because they deserved it more – far more quality wins (and, given how LSU’s offensive ineptitude was exposed last night, I’d argue there’s not a ton of daylight between each team’s one loss ). I don’t think Bama beating LSU validates their placement in that game. If you had parallel universes and had LSU play each and every team in Division I-A, I’m sure a handful would have executed and planned well enough to pull off the upset. But just because parallel universe Northwestern beat parallel universe LSU doesn’t mean Northwestern deserved to be in that game.

This season has totally turned me into a playoff proponent (and I was mildly opposed before).

[Gorsnak]

@Oakminster

Oklahoma State would have been blown out by either team last night.

We have absolutely no way of knowing this to be true. And THAT is what rankles so many people. Moreover, the game last night didn’t provide any doubters of SEC superiority with any convincing arguments. It was a dreadful game. Yeah, stifling defenses. But besides the good defensive play, the offenses sucked. Why should anyone who isn’t an SEC homer think that this game showed that no other team in the country, even those with really good offenses, could play with these teams? (Don’t answer that. It’s a rhetorical question. I know you think you have answers to it, but you’re an SEC homer, not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

[Duckster]

The truth is Alabama probably was the best team in 2011. As dominant as its defense was Monday night, it was hardly an uncharacteristic showing. Alabama is the first team in 25 years to finish No. 1 nationally in all four major statistical defense categories (total, rushing, passing and scoring defense). It finished the season having allowed just 8.2 points per game. The Tide allowed as many touchdowns – 10 – in 13 games as ACC champion Clemson allowed in one night in the Orange Bowl.

Forget just 2011. This Crimson Tide defense will go down as one of the greatest ever fielded.

(Bolding mine.)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/stewart_mandel/01/10/alabama-lsu-bcs-championship/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t12_a3

[Frank]

@Duckster

(Bolding mine.)

If all that is so important, why wasn’t Alabama ranked #1 going into the championship game?

[Gatopescado]

I guess Honey Badger should have given a shit. He had his nasssssty asssss handed to him.

OHHH! “Look Out!” says that bird!

[Darth_Sensitive]

@Great_Antibob

How about Oklahoma State lost in regulation to a bad Iowa State team.

They didn’t. They lost in overtime after missing a field goal, passing as near as directly over the upright as to be indistinguishable, that would have won it near the end of regulation.

[Gundy rant]Get your facts straight[/Gr]

[divemaster]

I’ve avoided this thread so far b/c the pain is only now wearing off. Yes, I’m a LSU alum and huge fan of the Purple and Gold. We got our asses handed to us and I tip my cap to Alabama. They were much better prepared and deserve the accolades. Enjoy it, and we’ll go toe to toe again next year and see what happens.

I made a prediction here on these boards right after the first LSU / Alabama game. If you recall, that was the game where Miles put in Jefferson for Lee, who was having a bad game. I said that there was no way LSU would win a national championship with Jefferson leading the team. The fact that Miles gave Lee no quality playing time the last 5 or so games of the year was, to me, the largest contributing factor (under LSU’s control) to the debacle on Monday night.

After halftime, I waited to see who would come out on LSU’s first series. When I saw it was Jefferson I turned off the TV and went upstairs. Sure I pulled up the gamecast on the computer in case I needed to go back later and catch a rally, but I was pretty much disgusted by that point.

LSU really does have an offense. They averaged I think 40 points a game if you take Alabama out of the equation. Lee led them to decisive victories over BCS bowl champs Oregon and West Virginia. He can pass the ball. So can Jefferson for that matter, from time to time, but Miles only called one passing play in the entire first half that called for a downfield look. ONE! Everything else that resembed a pass was a designed screen or a 3-yard out pattern. Not checked down to the guy in the flat, but as the primary target!

Saban knew that everone was expecting Richardson Richardson Richardson, so what did he do? Passed the ball 8 out of the first 10 plays. Miles knew that everyone was expecting read option read option read option, so what did he do? Called read option. Miles was unprepared and outcoached.

Lee deserved his chance. Besides Oregon and West Virginia, he crushed Florida, Tennessee, and Auburn. Sure, I can understand riding the hot hand with Jefferson but not to totally dismiss Lee and then not bring him in for the second half on Monday???

You can tell I’m worked up, and I apologize for the cathartic rambling. But LSU has a pretty good offense and can pass the ball. Why we didn’t even try is beyond me.

Now I’m waiting for baseball season. Geaux Tigers!

[mkecane]

Did anyone see the press conference for Miles? Bobby Hebert “asked” about Lee not playing, but the only time ESPN was showing the clip, they stop before Miles answers. What was his response?

[nate]

If OSU wanted to be in the championship game they should have beat ISU. I doubt you would see many Bama fans expecting to be in the BCSNC if they lost to Vanderbilt.

[Ogre]

@mkecane

Ogre, what’s the situation like for Bama next year? How many guys are expected to return? I thought I heard something like 10 of the defensive starters heading into this past season were underclassmen, but I don’t recall specifically. Agreed on your other points about how to win games, though. Who’s going to challenge them in the SEC?

Bama is actually going to lose some defensive talent this year. Hightower and Upshaw (the deadly linebackers), Mark Barron (the nation’s #1 safety prospect), and Dre Kirkpatrick (excellent corner) are all probably going to the NFL. Menzie (All-American) could also go. We don’t know what’s going to happen yet. Hell, some of our backups, like Jerrell Harris, who crushed the speed option all night in the NCG, may be playing in the league next year.

It’s probably going to be a rebuilding year on defense, but you never can tell. There’s a LOT of talent coming in.

[Ogre]

@markdash

LSU looked terrible and played a lousy game. You can admit that, right? They had 92 yards of total offense.

Was a lot of that Alabama’s defense? Yes, of course. But LSU played so terribly that I think another highly-ranked team would be expected to perform better almost by default.

I think it was mostly Alabama’s defense, and then the rest of it was LSU’s horrible game plan. In short, LSU tried to test what they thought were Bama’s vulnerabilities (fast edge plays), got shut completely down, had no real contingency plan, and spent the rest of the game rattled. Alabama’s defense had something to prove. They had listened to a lot of trash talk over the past month and a half, and they came out ready to hurt someone. They crushed everything in their path. It was glorious. (No offense, divemaster!)

[Carmady]

@nate

I doubt you would see many Bama fans expecting to be in the BCSNC if they lost to Vanderbilt.

What? If Alabama’s loss had been to Vanderbilt instead of LSU they would not only have been in the BCSNC, they would have been ranked #1 before the game (and rightfully so). The attention would have been on the quality of their wins, rather than the “quality” of their loss.

[Duke_of_Rat]

@Darth_Sensitive

They didn’t. They lost in overtime after missing a field goal, passing as near as directly over the upright as to be indistinguishable, that would have won it near the end of regulation.

[Gundy rant]Get your facts straight[/Gr]

And they almost lost to Stanford except for a missed Stanford field goal at the end of regulation. Plus the same kid missed a FG earlier that went right over the upright.