Uh, the fact that you’re an idiot clicked a long time ago. I fail to see what a crappy novel, written over two decades ago, by someone not elected to public office has anything to do with what the Federal government does. What you’re doing is the same as blaming december for the actions of the GOP. Bad porn novels have fuck all to do with this Administration.
Tuckerfan your ability to reason intelligently astounds me. I’m not sure who this december character is though. As touchy as you are perhaps it’s an ex-lesbian lover? Ok Ok. I’ll be fair, I know he was some clown who was banned. I’m not sure though, that if I was you I would waste my big guns on small fish. I only dip into GD every few months or so. That is, unless you’re inherently frivolous?
I made my point. Don’t make me say it a third time. If you fail to see connections perhaps it’s because you don’t have any in that dehydrated pool of synapse sludge dripping down through your cranial cravity and out your ass.
I fear you might have to tell us a third time alterego because the other two claims slipped through my head too. (They’re backed up in my arse at the moment because I dare not shit them out without offending my other sensibilities)
So, what’s your point again?
Wow, that’s got to be the most offensive insult I’ve seen on these boards in a long time. Really. You claim to be an advocate for gay rights and then you insult homosexuals by putting december in their ranks? Dude, that is seriously fucked up.
You’ve made no point. All you’ve said is that somehow a lesbian porn novel written 23 years ago by someone not serving in the US government is responsible for the Bush Administration’s anti-gay stance. Pardon me, and every other poster to this thread for being dense, but how can a book, which apparently praises the joys of lesbian relationships be responsible for a homophobic Administration some 23 years later, of which the author of the said book is not a member of??? 
Wot he said.
And I don’t vote for Bush or Kerry.
I have no idea whether Sisters has any causal relationship with the G.W. Bush’s anti-gay campaign stance, but you guys might want to read a bit about Lynne Cheney’s influence within the American cultural landscape. If you don’t feel like wading through an ad just to read the article (yeah, sorry), it basically describes how, even though she no longer holds any official position, Mrs. Cheney is still pulling strings at the National Endowment for the Humanities (which she chaired from 1986 to 1992) to ensure its projects and policies align with right-wing orthodoxy. Specifically on the novel in question, we see:
Why she had this apparent change of heart regarding the book since it was written, I can’t say.
[quote}Why she had this apparent change of heart regarding the book since it was written, I can’t say.[/quote]
Now that it is fetching $500 for one of the original copies, I could prolly hazard an educated guess. 
Well, perhaps it was because she’s more concerned about maintaining a cushy job than anything else, especially since her career as a pornwriter didn’t seem to be panning out very well, and if she wanted her husband to be able to keep his cushy job, then she wouldn’t want to anger TPTB by appearing to be overtly sympathetic to issues the GOP had taken a hard stance against.
Now, how exactly did you demonstrate that?
Well, it certainly shouldn’t be, but the fact of the matter is that it is a policy issue. Say it isn’t doesn’t make it so.
So, you’re saying that the Bush campaign has no business complaining about Kerry making a private matter public, because that’s what the Bush campaign does every time it tries to score political points by denigrating homosexuals? Great. Excellent point. I totally agree.
What does this have to do with Lynne Cheney’s novel writing?
Yes, I think I’m following now, except for what Lynne Cheney has to do with any of this. A+ for content, D- for presentation.
I feel a need to reiterate what I have said above since none of you are apparantly getting it. I admit I leave a bit of mystery to what I write, but it is only in the hope that people have the opportunity to put 2 + 2 together for themselves. Whether or not you agree with me I have made a fucking point in this thread.
This book has no connection to the Bush Administration. I am demonstrating an example in the very family of the second highest cabinet of our government, which at the highest levels is at this time of the opinion that homosexuals are sinners and as couples do not deserve equal rights to heterosexuals. The Bush Administration was disturbed that our left wing Johnny’s would dare violate their family privacy. A disgrace!
Perhaps they will slowly begin to understand that this is how we all feel. And writing a lesbian novel 23 years ago is no small matter. She really had to understand that aspect of herself to write those words. She had to empathize with what it is like to have that preference. She wrote an entire novel about it! It’s not something you forget.
Indeed, the hypocricy angle is that angle I was going for. Thank you Miller, thank you Earthling.
So they are a bunch of fuckin’ hypocrites, that’s news, how? And WTF does it have to do with “human rights”?
In other news, Cheney lied, his lips were moving. And the sun will come out tomorrow.
Seriously, dude, you need to step aside and let the professional Bush Bashers do their thing. Amateur Hour was rightly cancelled after the bombs started dropping for real. No time to lay a turd now.
That you’re an idiot. Right, we got that.
So why bring it up?
So, given that the number two folks have almost no say in the setting of policy, WTF does this have to do with anything?
Yeah, well a lot of people who plan on voting for Kerry find it pretty disgraceful too.
Philip K. Dick is quoted as not remembering books he wrote. Paul Bowles in his autobiography describes hearing a piece of music that he enjoyed, and when he went to find out who wrote it, discovered that he had. And it’s entirely possible to write a novel and not understand it with the depth that you seem to think it requires. If the damn thing was any good, it’d still be in print. Most likely she just wrote the first draft as a straight romance novel, and then when it wasn’t picked up by any of the publishing companies, she quickly rewrote it and changed the names of a couple of male characters to female characters.
So why the fuck didn’t you just say so? There’s a term for folks who post cryptic threads which seem to have no point to them.
Referencing a couple of fucking lunatics that can’t remember writing novels or musical pieces doesn’t lend your much credence.
No, he’s right. The OP was a big fucking mess.
Everything you’ve said is true, but the book has fuck-all to do with it.
Incidentally, I clearly heard Cheney say, “if it were up to me, I’d leave it up to the states to decide,” during the VP debate. I’m surprised nobody has mentioned his apparent 180 on the gay marriage thing.
The problem is, you haven’t made it well. Next time, avoid the mystery.
Then you probably shouldn’t have brought it up. From what I can tell, it’s done nothing but confuse the issue, and has no real current significance, except as evidence that Lynne Cheney was, at one point, not completely revolting.
Okay, stop right there: an example of what? The rest of this:
says where you found this example, but it doesn’t say what it’s an example of. This sentence doesn’t really say anything at all.
Also, an example is not demonstrated, an example demonstrates.
Define “we.” All Americans? All Democrats? All liberals? All people who support gay rights? I don’t think you could reliably say that a majority of any of those groups support gay rights. Excepting the last, obviously.
Which sucks. The shitty thing is, Bush is smart to make a play for the homophobia vote. It’ll probably win him the election. Even Kerry has courted it. It’s what works in the current political climate in the country. But it won’t always work. Sooner or later, someone’s going to go to that well one too many times, and find out it’s all dried up.
God grant that time will be this November.
Actually, it kinda is.
Mmm, not really. First of all, I don’t buy into the idea that everybody is a little gay. And I say that as a bisexual. Second, you don’t have to be something to write convincingly about it. And lastly, Lynne Cheney’s lesbians aren’t all that convincing. That’s some pretty idealized lesbian action going on in that book. It sounds pretty much like what I’d expect from a straight woman with no particular talent for writing.
Not really. If she’d had more empathy for the plight of frontier lesbians, she’d probably have written a better book.* My impression of the book is that it was basically exploitative. She had lesbians in it because lesbians are “hot” (in the sense of both “sexy” and “trendy”) and would sell more books if she stuck a pair. Now, two decades later, she’ll make more money if she hates gays, so she suppresses the book and throws a hissy fit whenever anyone points out that her daughter is gay. So, in a way, she’s not really a hypocrite, since her central motivation (make more money) appears to be unchanged.
Now, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the lesbians were a subplot to the book, not the central plot. Am I incorrect?
No, it’s not, but Lynne Cheney will pay you cash money if you do.
That’s what I’m here for.
*In total fairness, I haven’t read the book, so I probably shouldn’t be dismissing it like this. But based on the excerpts I’ve read here and elsewhere: yeeesh.
Oh, and you should really read Philip K. Dick sometime. Great stuff. You’d really appreciate his writing style. Start with Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? It’s the book Blade Runner was based on.
And writing an elliptical OP about something that has nothing to do with what you’re upset about does?
Do you even know who Philip K Dick or Paul Bowles are? I don’t see how you could call Bowles a lunatic. He’s one of the finest writers I’ve ever encountered, and I say this as a lover of Joyce, Shakespeare, Homer, and Burroughs. (And the fact that he was also a classical composer who studied under Aaron Copeland, hung out with Orson Welles, Salvadore Dali, William S. Burroughs, and a host of other high talent folks, says that if he was a lunatic, then we’d all be better off if there were more like him.) It’s pretty fucking easy to forget things in 23 years. Can you tell us what you were doing 23 years ago?
How dare you compare him to Homer. You mean to imply that Homer could have forgotten about writeing The Iliad? Come on now. And James Joyce, don’t you even get me started.
Anyway, i’m not big on Blade Runner or electric sheep.
And I apologize for my spelling/grammar/punctuation throughout. It’s been pretty damn bad.
Well, seeing as how we’ve no concrete evidence that Homer wrote The Illiad or The Odyssey, only Greek tradition that those two books which are radically different in style were written by the same man (who lived in a preliterate society), I’d say that if anyone should be insulted, it’s Bowles, since we know that he authored those works which bear his name. And I reread The Odyssey at least once a year.
Also, The Iliad’s a vastly superior work to the cheap trash Lynne Cheney wrote, so while I doubt Homer (if he existed) would have forgotten The Illiad (since people in pre-literate societies tend to have excellent memorization techniques), I think it’s entirely possible for Lynne Cheney to have forgotten about some turd of a novel she wrote 23 years ago.
As for Joyce, well, shit, man, the guy was a fucking genius, even a sot like Hemingway was jealous of Joyce’s talent. Great singer, too, apparently. Amazing how an appreciation of fine music and great writing go together.