Machetero and Diogenes the Cynic are used cum bags

The BBQ Pit
241

Thanks. I think I’m just being a realist though.

I think there should be guidelines on an age of consent but I don’t think they should always be written in stone. Often, they aren’t. Many times in cases of concentual sex between a minor and adult the state won’t go for it unless the parents of the “victim” pushes it. My wife works in the OB department and has to report particular cases -something like 16 year old mothers with a 19 year old fathers. But she tells me many times nothing happens from the state in those cases. The PD comes, has a chat and leaves.

But honestly I think many parents telling their children to not have sex until their married or until they move out is a big mistake. These kids end up with baggage about sex. They feel like they did something wrong when they finally go through with it. Why? It’s just sex.

My brother was raised by my mother who held that position. The first girl he fucked got pregnant. They got married. To this day the guy can’t even talk about sex in a regular conversation because he ended up with my mothers position -sex is private and not talked about. Bullshit. It’s sloppy, wet, and gooey (if you do it right) but most of all it’s fun.

Teens are always going to have sex and many ARE old enough to handle it. By parents giving them a solid and healthy understanding of what they’re getting into, perhaps they’ll fumble along with it in their own age groups.

Perhaps the 15 year old from the OP felt she’d prove her sexual power over men by getting a 24 year old in the sack. Perhaps the 24 year old is insecure about his sexuality and found the idea of screwing girls that didn’t know any better easier -if they don’t how how bad he is they won’t complain. Both, IMO hangups. Just perhaps if people stopped acting like sex was so damn important it could be looked at in a more realistic way. A more realistic approach might mean less hangups and an overall healthier sexual population.

Sometimes all this oddly fake outrage over sexual issues gets old.

242

Dio, you’re telling other people how they feel. That’s extremely condescending.

243

It seems apparent that Darwin designed humans, females and males, to have sex before 18. Not that that always should determine what we deem common decency, but it does make things easier when you try to work with nature. Dio at best you seem to be fighting windmills. Is there a single person in this thread who didn’t have sex before 18 (you @17 included)? I think the average age of sexual debut in Denmark is 14-15. Do you think the large majority of Danes have been sexually exploited and/or are pervs and sleezeballs?

If pregnancy and STD’s is your main concern, it seems education and ready access to prevention is bound to show better results. Also non-intercourse sexual relations and homosexual sex does not lead to pregnancy. Would that mean they should have a lower AoC?

btw. I have two daughters (whom can start having sex when they’re 32).

244

My problem is not so much with teenagers fucking teenagers but with adults fucking teenagers.

245

And yet, in a hypothetical, didn’t you say that a 15 year old boy would deserve to go to juvie if he had sex with a younger teen girl?

(why, by the way, wouldn’t she deserve to go to jail for having sex with a young teenage boy?)

246

Well, it should be a misdemeanor for both. I think I suggested juvie if the dude knocked her up. I think we need to find some way to start punishing the maggots who impregnate teenage girls.

247

You honestly suggest clogging our prison/legal system with teenagers simply becuase they had sex? Shouldn’t there be some standard of harm-done, rather than penis-inserted?

Nope.
First

To which you replied:

I will note, you did not say “lock her up too, the sow!”
Am I to take it that you are amending your position so that they’re both ‘pigs’ instead of just him? (why is sex so damn dirty in your schema?)

Does it really make sense to lock teens up for experimenting with their own bodies?

Should we next lock up pre-pubescent children for playing doctor?
(Fucking pigs that they are)

You do realize that your system essentially reduces women to will-less automotans who need to be protected from the mean and predatory men who’ll take advantage of poor, naive, uncomprehending femmes?

I’ve known of teenage girls who intentionally got pregnant. (and as others have pointed out, teen years include two years of majority age) Does it make sense that those girls should be called maggots and go to jail?

248

One thing nobody’s mentioned is that teenage girls can often be very adult - which is why we tire of the teenage boys we find ourselves surrounded by, and instead form relationships with more mature males.

Dio, there are intelligent, mature, sexually aware teen girls who enjoy sexual relationships with older men. There are a lot of them! I was friends with gaggles in high school. They were not victims. They knew what they wanted, they got it, they had a lot of fun. They knew to use birth control - I’d say half were on the Pill or the ring, and the other half used condoms. At my school, it was the honors and advanced placement students who dated older guys.

You say “maggots” are “impregnating” teen girls. Besides a really awesome basis for a sci-fi porn, that’s a rather degrading way of placing females in a passive role, with no say in the matter whatsoever and certainly no control. This is simply not the case.

You refuse to view any teenager/legal adult pairing as anything other than a disgusting display of coercion and control. This is a troublesome and very false view. Sure, unhealthy, manipulative relationships can form - across ANY age groups. But your broad-ass brush is splashing a lot of peoples’ shoes, here.

249

Dio: In the name of fighting ignorance (ooooh, spiffy name!), can you at least say:

“I love my daughter very much and I may very well be overprotective. What is best for my daughter might not be best for everybody’s children. I know that I can’t legistlate morality and it is quite possible that some-but-not-all girls under the age of 18 are not able to handle sex. I also know that some-but-not-all girls under the age of 18 can handle sex?”

I mean, honestly… I’m no predator, I’m no scheming skeevy bastard, and the women and girls I’ve been with haven’t been, either.

Maybe you can accept that while your generalization may be true for a certain (let’s say large) percentage of the population, it is a generalization and thus not absolute?

Otherwise, we’re into theology… and if your position is “it’s wrong, simply wrong, even if no harm is done, it’s wrong becuase I say it’s wrong.” Well… there’s really no debate.

“Doing X, Y, Z, is immoral because it violates God’s Will, as shown in this book right here.”

"Having a healthy sexual relationship with a person over the age of consent in one state is okay but it becomes horribly immoral if they cross state lines, because of ‘basic human decency’.

I really can’t argue with either statement, becuase both of them are fundementalism.

Seriously, can you at least admit that if no harm, mental, emotional, social, physical, etc… is done to either party, then maybe, just maybe, no moral outrage has transpired?

250

See, you were talking sense, and then you decided to make a joke. And I KNOW it was a joke. But I’m sick of those kinds of “jokes”. They’re still perpetuating that mindset. No offense; just saying.

251

Only took three and a half years, but I finally made someone’s “dumbfuck” list. I’m finally getting the recognition I deserve! :rolleyes:

Let me give you a hypothetical, since you seem unable to understand the nuances of my objection. Take your average, oh let’s say 16 year old. He’s got a girl at school who’s been throwing herself at him, but he’s not sure he’s ready for a full-on sexual relationship yet. You tell him, “While ‘making love’ is better, there’s nothing wrong with casual sex.”

His eyes light up. You mean he can completely give in to his carnal nature, the consequences be damned? This is great news! So he calls the girl up and fucks her hard.

Next thing you know, she ends up being a complete psycho. 16YO decides to break it off with her so he can get back to his football practices or his drama rehersal. She then makes the rest of his high school life a complete hell. But it doesn’t matter, because casual sex is okay.

Even worse, what if she gets pregnant? The kid either gets aborted, given up for adoption, or grows up in a shitty environment since the parents are probably not ready for the responsibility of childrearing. All because you told him that casual sex was okay.

What if she’s not completely nuts and doesn’t get knocked up, but he decides that he’d rather go have casual sex with someone else? He dumps her, and starts parading around the school with the head cheerleader? Her heart is broken, but still casual sex is okay.

I don’t think it’s okay for teenagers to have casual sex, simply because 999 times out of 1,000 they aren’t emotionally ready for it. Save it for when they’ve grown up. But I have no intention of legislating it or attempting to keep you from raising your kid however you want. I just think you’re a lousy parent.

252

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree on all this, folks. I’m never going to think it’s ok for adults to prey on teenagers. I’m never going to think that it isn’t sleazy for a 24 year old to bone a 15 year old, I’m never going think that a 15 year old girl is mature enough to make a truly informed decision to sleep with an adult. The very fact that she can’t tell the adult is a sleazeball (especially when we’re talking about more than a few years difference) is ipso facto proof that she doesn’t know what she’s doing.

You all think there should be moral lines too, don’t you? I think we also agree that the lines are going to have to be somewhat arbitrary. We just disagree on where there lines should be.

Let’s talk about these oh-so-mature 14 year olds for a second. Some people are trying to argue that 14 year old girl can be capable of making an informed decision about sex and sexual partners. At least you think that’s possible if the guy is 16 or 17. Maybe even 20. But what about if the guy is 40. Is it ok with you if a 40 year old man tells you that your 14 year old daughter is really, really mature for her age, that he really loves her and that he’d really like to take her up the Hershey Highway. Is that just fine as long as the 14 year old consents?

So what’s the real difference between a 20 year old and a 40 year old? They’re both adults, aren’t they? They’re both accountable for their actions aren’t they? So why is 40 sleazy but not 20?

If a 14 year old is mature enough to choose to bone a 20 year old, why isn’t she old enough to choose to bone a 50 year old?

That’s why I keep talking about an age of accountability. If you are an adult, you follow certain rules. I don’t ask for much. Don’t kill people, don’t steal my shit and don’t fuck children.

If you imagine that you’re truly in love with a minor and you won’t seek counselling, then just wait. Wait until the other person actually becomes a consenting adult.

I said I would make it a misdemeanor if both partners are minors and I’ll stand by that. A minor, by definition, has not reached the age of full accountability yet (so no I wouldn’t lock them up, but I would give them some community service or something).

We also still need an absolute bottom, though. An age for which no mitigation is possible. You don’t like 14? How about 12? How about 9? What’s the magic age at which you would all agree that it becomes predatory and criminal with no gray area?

I’m thinking in terms of what line will do the least harm. There is great potential for harm if teenagers are allowed to make whatever sexual decisions they want and adults are limited only by their own personal consciences.

There is no harm done to anyone if adults are only permitted to bone other adults. It is not going to harm a 20 year old college junior if he is not allowed to place his penis into his 13 year old sweetheart until she becomes an adult. If it’s really a true burning love then he can wait until she grows up.

253

Yay!

Whether or not it has my “vote of approval”, it will happen anyways. That’s teenage children for you. The difference is that while casual sex between teens can happen in the dark, ignorantly, or it can happen intellegently with thought and foresight.

The difference is generally ‘with protection’ vs. ‘without protection’.

I didn’t know it took sex to do this to girls, boys, or just nutty childhood exes in general. So you’re saying that sex makes teens crazy?

Neh.

More like “all because you told him never to have sex without being married”. That line of thinking leads teens to ignorance. Worse yet, it could just lead a teen couple who aren’t really thinking about the future, or know they aren’t right for each other down the long road of couplehood-just so it’s not “casual”. I know lots of high school couples who end up with each other just because they’ve been with each other since high school.

Once again, it takes sex to lead the hunk of the school to act like this? It takes sex to make the girl feel like crap when this happens to her?

No.

For this comment I lead you to your own sig line…

And for this one, just a hearty “fuck yourself”. However, you are free to have whatever fucked up puritanical position that leads you to feel the need to parade around on a moral high horse above all other parents. Enjoy it. Maybe, just maybe your kids will turn out better than all of the other kids I went to school with who had parents who were “moral”, and religious, and preached similar ideas.

Incidentally, most of them ended up knocked up, or in really fucked up long-term relationships.

Sam

254

Dio, when I was eighteen, my 16-year-old girlfriend left me for an older woman, a woman in her mid-twenties. I was devastated, but honestly I think that older woman was the best thing that ever happened to my ex; they had a relationship in many ways far better than what she and I had. It was beneficial that she dated this older woman.

I could have reported the older woman to the courts, and gotten prison time for her.

When you say that “There is no harm done to anyone if adults are only permitted to bone other adults,” I think you’re dead wrong. Had I gotten the older woman thrown into prison, there would have been immense harm done to both of them.

Daniel

255

That’s totally circular logic, Dio, and it’s completely contrary to a lot of people’s personal experience. You’re pathologizing relationships that we valued, or continue to value. You just cover your ears when someone who actually sought out relationships with significantly older people at that age tells you they knew what they were doing, and that it was good for them. Look, I’ve made mistakes in relationships, and I can recognize them in hindsight. I’m sure stately plump buck mulligan has that same ability. Your position is that both of us were sexually abused by predatory monsters. This is ridiculous. We were there, okay? It just wasn’t that way.

Look, when I was 15, all the girls I knew who were my age wanted someone to hang out at the mall with, or maybe talk about Duran Duran. Me, I was really into Carl Jung and James Joyce. I wanted a girlfriend I could have a fucking conversation with. I wanted someone that interested me. Someone I had a degree of respect for. I was a mature fifteen-year-old. By the time I was fifteen, I was totally independent. I was working as a PC tech and paying half the rent, while my (seven years older) girlfriend, that I had been living with for almost a year, went to school. You think I should have channeled my sexual energy into someone my own age “for deceny’s sake,” even though it would just be sex? Or maybe just consigned myself to sexual frustration for a few years?

Yes. In fact, where I live, this isn’t even a controversial question, because our age of consent is fourteen, which is more realistic in terms of natural human development.

Dio, I hope you don’t think this is an offensive comparison, but your attitude reminds me of the sort of people who howled for the blood of men in “miscegenous” relationships, even when they were consensual. They just knew that it was unnatural and wrong, and obviously the women were victimized, taken advantage of, and couldn’t be trusted to know their own minds. And hey! Get that guy! We’ve got to protect our women!

It’s emotional, irrational, and ultimately robs the people you’re ostensibly “protecting” of their right to be who they are.

256

No, incorrect. It is the legal lines which must be fixed and somewhat arbitrary. The moral lines will vary from case to case. It may be acceptable for 24 year old “A” to sleep with 16 year old “B”, and it may me immoral for 18 year old “C” to sleep with 17 year old “D”.

If, after five full pages, you still do not understand that this is what is being said to you, then you are right: you’ll never see the other side of the coin.

A 40 year old sleeping with a teenager is not necessarily “sleazy,” but the gulf in experience and maturity is so wide that the circumstances would have to be fairly extreme, I imagine, for such a situation to be acceptable. With a 20 year old, that gulf is not nearly so extreme (depending on the particular boy and girl, in fact, it may hardly exist) – hence there could be the potential for a healthy sexual relationship.

257

(bolding mine)

And here at the quasi feminist tin foil hat news desk, this just in: All men are predators, walking around with erect dicks looking for a cavity stick stick that dick in. Men are incapable of emotions, empathy, tenderness, love, lust, yearning, shame, guilt, and just about anything but sticking their heat seeking missiles into some hot, juice and preferably young pussy.
Any girl willing to be with a man is dumb, has issues, has been sexualy abused, is a victim, victim, victim, I tell you.
Thank God for these victims, so we can all show indignant rage and justify our sense of intellectual superiority.

258

Diogenes, amidst a laundry list of unwise and unfortunate debate tactics, you seem to be arguing a “slipperly slope” fallacy that’s similar, though not identical, to the one used by many of those who would seek to legislate against gay marriage. I think it’s bullshit when they do it, and I think it’s bullshit when you do it.

259

Do you even know what a paradox is?

I know that teenagers have sex. I know that nobody can stop them. I just don’t think it’s wise to tell them that it’s “okay” as in it has no consequences. I assume you don’t do this. If you did or do, I reserve the right to call you a lousy parent, just like I would call Michael Jackson a lousy parent for holding his kid over a balcony (and a host of other reasons).

BTW, nice ad hominem there. Really does your argument justice.

And this is different from other kids…how?

260

Or apple pies. :smiley: