Remember we were talking about these 15 y.o. you want to send to juvie, not adults according to your definition.
Ok, then they’re responsible. So, they can make responsible decisions about with whom they have sex? I was pretty certain you stated the contrary previously.
We can go on forever. Once for all, can they or can’t they be responsible for these decisions?
Dio, why do you continually ignore the various arguments from those of us who have been there that fifteen year old girls [and heck, even younger] can POSSIBLY be mature enough to act on their sexuality and make decisions for themselves? As I said, it’s very insulting.
Go you!!
No, wait. If you were in California, I’m sorry you were brutally victimized like that.
First off, murder is something entirely different than pregnancy. With murder, there is no doubt that someone is being harmed. Secondly, when people make something illegal, they have the annoying habit of thinking that this somehow solves the problem, when it obviously doesn’t. Given that we already have the world’s largest prison population, do you think that it’s really wise to add to that population, especially when it means depriving the child of contact with their father during the critical period of development in their life?
Having lived with a couple of CPS employees, and known people who’ve had to deal with other CPS folks, I find your “solution” appalling in the extreme.
Yet you’ve failed to prove how any of these minors were exploited.
And there, I think, lies the answer as to why you’ve gotten your panties into a twist over this: You’re jealous of all the other guys who had more balls than you did. FTR, I was 19 when I lost my virginity (in fact, I’d just turned 19 the day before) to a girl who was younger than me, but vastly more experienced. How much younger, I don’t know, I was incredibly drunk and stoned at the time, never saw her before or since. All I knew was her first name.
Yeah, well, I’m a bit of a romantic as well, even though I’ve never managed to settle down and get married, but I’d don’t judge people just because they choose to live their life in a manner different than my own.
Any 15 year old who wants to have sex with a 24 year old has issues. Any 24 year old who goes to parties looking to cruise drunken teeny boppers is a fucking sleazeball. Why is that such a controversial statement.
BTW, it was a crime even to give that girl alcohol much less fuck her when she was drunk.
Ahhh, so there was this one guy who gave an underage girl liquor, then he wants to have sex with her! Say no more, you have me convinced!
Oh, merde mountain. Surely you, Dio are far too intelligent not to be aware of the contradiction between your tone/actual locutions and the statement above.
It were one thing if you said, “I feel for the guy, but in order to deter exploitation he will have to go to prison for time XYZ.” Such a statement would about a particular social goal and the means to accomplish it.
Instead we’ve been treated to talk of scumbags, pigs, predators, and eating rats in prison. Your tone does indeed indicate a very morality-based stance on the topic, and a lust for punishment on your part for those who go against your particular notion of what is sexually right and wrong.
FACE YOUR OWN OPINION.
In your opinion. And in my opinion you are dead fucking wrong. Oh well.
Simply because it allows for no shades of grey. It’s a black and white statement. People on the board have given you examples of this and you simply seem to be refusing to listen. That’s the controversy.
I’m a bit puzzled as to how you can be so against black and white belief systems in other respects and so dedicated to one here.
By the by, damn Dio. :eek: You sure got on the wrong side of the gangbang today 
I know they happen all the time (hell, it even happened to me). I’m certainly not suggesting that it be hidden or (God forbid) legislated against. I just think telling a hormone-crazed teenager that it’s “okay” is just asking for trouble.
But go ahead and raise your kids however you want. If you think it’s a good idea to encourage them to have “meaningless” sex, more power to you.
So in all times and places throughout history, no sexual relationship between a 21 year old and a 15 year old has been healthy? This seems to be be what you are saying, since to admit otherwise is to admit that such a judgement is context-dependent, which you’ve explicitly denied.
This is not phrased honestly. The phrase “goes after 15 year olds” itself implies deceitful, predatory behavior, so you are in effect saying “someone who takes advantage of 15 year olds is a predator,” a statement which is not in dispute.
What myself and others have argued is that relationships such as these are not necessarily dishonorable. Motive matters. There’s a big difference between someone who has sex with a teenager and thinks, “Boy, I love breaking in little girls!” and someone who thinks, “What a wonderful person; I think I’m falling in love.” Due to differences in maturity and development, I don’t doubt that the latter is less common than the former (to say nothing of the vast in between). However, to say that the latter can never happen is to deny, among other things, inumerable testimonials, some in this very thread.
Tough to define, much easier to point out when it’s not true.
But I’ll give it a stab.
As long as the relationship is explicit and honest, as long as there’s no coercion, as long as both partners can ‘handle’ the emotional fallout of a succesful as well as a failed relationship/association…
Why, indeed. If only there were, say, a five-page long thread on the topic with people offering multiple legal and philosophic defences, and maybe even some first-hand testimony from people who had positive, teen-aged sexual experiences with older partners. Alas, alas, that such a thread will never be, and this question must therefore haunt us until our dying day.
Dio: as stately pointed out, you are essentially ignoring real world examples in favor of your bias.
Obviously people are telling you about how they had sex at an early age and not only did it not scar them, they enjoyed it.
I could count myself as one of those people: I dated older women when I was younger and have dated a few younger women now that I’m older. I’m not a predator, and the women I was with weren’t either.
I would request that you take a minute to examine how strong a generalization you really want to make.
Who said “encourage”?
Good job parsing. You’re officially on my “dumbfuck” list with Dio. Next time try not to read too heavily between the lines.
This issue appears to be the one chink in Diogenes bleeding heart liberal armor.
Do you mean that the armor bleeds generally, and only this one bit of mail stanches the flow?
Actually, I think this issue is the chink in his armor of atheism. All he can offer on the topic is dogma.
Holy shit. The thread that will not die.
Well let me pipe in that I’m the father of a 13 year old daughter. Do I want her fucking a 24 year old at a party? Not really. Am I going to condone her being at a party with a bunch of 24 year olds drinking? Nope.
I’ve a good relationship with my daughter. Our household dosen’t demonize sex or sexual relations. I’ve explained my thoughts to her that sex is something that happens, it’s natural, and people do it because it’s fun AND it brings them closer together. I’ve also explained that sometimes people have some hangups and baggage when it comes to sex so everyone should make sure before then decide on doing it they’re ready for the extra emotions that come along with it.
We’ve (my wife and I) already have had a number of talks with the daughter and sex, boys, relationships, etc. We expect her to be informed going in to the situation. We trust her to do the right thing when it comes time to have sex. We will make sure she’ll be prepared when she does decide, for herself, when it is the right time for her to have sex.
If she does happen to have sex with a 24 year old at a party when she’s 15, there isn’t much I can do about it. But, she’s a smart kid now and I suspect she’ll be able to handle the emotions of that enviroment in two years time. I do hope it wouldn’t be her first time with a 24 year old. There is something about the fumbling of two young kids trying to figure the whole thing out together (like I did) at that age. I look back on mine with great fondness. I also look back on the time when I was 16 boning a 28 year old stripper with fondness as well. It’s part of growing up and getting your sexual footing.
That said, I won’t just sit by if someone forces themselves on my daughter. If my daughter is at a party and some 24 year old forces to bullies her into sex, I’ll find him and crack his head.
I think you can tell I don’t have any sexual hangups. I’m often confused by how people take sex so fucking serious. I’ve come to think many people are “too young” for sex because they have some sort of false shame over it because of their parents attitude. Like sex something only mature people in their 30’s are allowed to do. Well, it isn’t. People young and old do it and they do it ALOT. Any person who goes into a sexual enviroment without sexual hangups walks away without issues. If you are brought up to be ashamed of sexual activity how in the fuck are you going to require your partner to wear a condom? Sex is bad. The penis is a dirty thing. We don’t talk about those things. It’s bullshit.
It might sound weird for a father to say about their teen daughter but I WANT her to have a good attitude about sex. I WANT her to have active and healthy sexual relationships. And oddly, I want her to have a handful of one night stands before she’s married or settled down. I want her to know what she wants and what she likes when it comes to sex. I want her to be safe about it, do it at her own pace and have fun with what sex has to offer. Do I want it to start tomorrow. No. But if she does and she can handle it, then I guess it will have to.
For this, and for the rest of your post, one guy to another, one human to another, I would just like to say:
Right fucking on!
(only a slight pun intended)
Seven, you rule and from what I can tell you are an awesome AWESOME father. Your attitude is, I think, the ideal. You strike a balance between the [rather skeevy, IMO] father who was mentioned that got excited at his friend wanting to ‘fuck the hell out of’ his daughter, and Dio’s opposite brand of extremism.
Thank you for taking such a realistic yet caring view of your daughter’s future sex life - and thank you for seeing the greys.