Mafia: Mutiny on the SS Incorrigible

[fluiddruid]

@Red_Skeezix

I don’t like the peeker votes, since he can be either confirmed or condemned based on the fact that he’s a commissar. Something that the peeker voters are dismissing out of hand.

Last I checked, you’re not confirmed Town. You can’t ‘confirm’ anybody. Seems like a pretty big thing to gloss over to me, and on top of it you’re basically trying to force a removal of the peeker vote, who is a strong lynch candidate.

Having a non participant make it to 3 handed is something i’m not comfortable with. NAF needs to be brigged, lynched or confirmed.

This is a throwaway vote and encourage confirmation of NAF (!) is just plain irresponsible. Why would we waste an investigation on a non-player who’s basically bowed out, and has historically posted very little? Even in a best case where he’s scum (and you’re town), who would you then vote for? Who is he connected to?

Sorry, but this is just transparently terrible advice with an easily visible scum rationale. That’s close enough for me.

vote Red Skeezix

[fluiddruid]

@glowacks

I suppose NP could have been overemphasizing the utility of lynching a scum, but you seem to be drastically underemphasizing it. Should we not consider it a good thing to lynch scum just because we’ve come close to lynching that person before? That you were almost lynched yesterDay may mean a higher probability of being lynched later, but it doesn’t mean that lynching you if you’re scum stops being a good play. You focus on the fact that you as Captain is meaningless if you’re scum, but if you confirm yourself as scum we’d be elated to lynch you since we’ve already been wrong 2 (or 3) times. Lynching a scum is good enough that we won’t care that we couldn’t use the brig.

I’m honestly not sure what you’re talking about. I wasn’t attempting a case against lynching me in that post - I was attempting a case against lynching Hal, who we had no real scum case against. All of the rest of it (me being scum, etc) was about the repercussions of that central issue, and the fact that, again, I think lynching for officer spots is an extremely bad idea for Town.

I also found something interesting: …
This is a really strange thing to say regardless of your alignment, as it is never in a player’s best interest for themselves to be lynched unless significant information is gained from it. The only way this statement could be in your best interest at face value is if you were Town and knew for certain (such as through an investigation) that Mahaloth was scum. Since you weren’t absolutely certain, the statement is against your best interest, and thus I have to look at the rhetorical intent behind it. To me, it seems to say “look at what I’m willing to do for the town”. This is certainly a viable way of playing either town or scum, as the latter gains significant town cred for offering themselves as a sacrifice. In such a WIFOM situation, isn’t the best thing to just play it straightforwardly? You said to lynch you if you were wrong, and you were wrong. Should we make it any more complex than that?

I’m surprised that you “found” this, I didn’t try to make it too obscure.

For what it’s worth, I can’t say it was entirely hyperbole, though that was the case. I honestly figured that I was on my way out and Mahaloth was on my short list of suspects. So, to me, it was a choice between myself and someone who I felt was, more likely than not, scum. People have accused me of trying to make a case for no reason, to defend myself, and so on. In all honesty, Mahaloth was on my list before I even looked at the vote leaders. I went through the whole thread from the very beginning and I basically just wrote down everything that concerned me. Mahaloth (and peeker) had the most bullet points on that list. I placed my vote and made my case, and I staked my reputation (and life, I suppose) on it.

I can’t blame anyone for voting for me, honestly. There’s just nothing much I can do to refute most of the votes at this point or assuage anyone - as I said overnight, I don’t think most earnest town people will consider my opinion with too much gravity until after I’m confirmed (dead). But until then I’m resolved to answer questions put to me and do my best to vote for who I think deserves it.

[fluiddruid]

All right, Crackrat. I kind of hate to do this because I worry about why he’s gotten the vote lead so quickly. Let’s hope it’s a Town initiative. But I do have to point the stinky finger at him. points

(PS I hope you’re a guy. If you mentioned your gender, I’ve forgotten!)

As has been noted, there isn’t much to his posts other than strategy discussions and, even moreso, just clarifying the ruleset. Not much to glean there, but it concerns me that he’s hanging this far back, but at the same time he’s making largely uncontroversial votes that seem to be overwhelmingly for town players. In addition, the vote pattern he has is very troubling.

Yesterday, he voted for:

Hal Briston (473) [confirmed town]
Mahaloth (473) [confirmed town]
Normal Phase (473) [confirmed town]
fluiddruid (518) [unknown]

On Day 1, he voted for:

Inner Stickler (279-311) [Claimed Mate] [UNVOTED]
Idle Thoughts (323) [investigated Town by Mahaloth, confirmed town]
Mahaloth (323) [confirmed town]
Hal Briston (339) [confirmed town]
Drain Bead (339) [confirmed town]

That’s a pretty impressive batting average right there! Not only that, but practically all of Crackrat’s end-of-day-finalized votes have been for vote leaders.

Day 2 top 3

fluiddruid (7) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Normal Phase, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
Mahaloth (7) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Inner Stickler, glowacks, Normal Phase, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
Hal Briston (5) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Crackrat

Day 1 top 4

Drain Bead (9) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, Natlaw, fubbleskag, Crackrat, Idle Thoughts, NAF1138.
Hal Briston (9) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Mahaloth, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, glowacks, Normal Phase, Crackrat, Idle Thoughts.
Mahaloth (6) <= fluiddruid, peekercpa, glowacks, Natlaw, Crackrat, Stanislaus.
Idle Thoughts (6) <= TexCat, peekercpa, Natlaw, fubbleskag, Crackrat, Stanislaus.

What do I take from all this? I think Crackrat is a newer player who is playing it as safe as he can for scum. He’s saying little, not rocking the boat, and quietly letting town continue to eat its own. He’s not experienced enough to want to rock the boat and vote for scum players, lest it stick. Playing it too close to the vest for my taste.

vote Crackrat

This is a placeholder 4th vote only to have my votes counted. I plan to find a better candidate in the morning.

vote NAF

[TexCat]

@Stanislaus

OK, looking at Day One: Hal, Drain and Maha were Town, so we shouldn’t expect Scum to discriminate between them. Looking only at the unconfirmed pool, we have the following:

TexCat, Crackrat, Red Skeezix voted for both Drain and Hal.
fluid, NAF, peeker and glowacks voted for only one of the leaders.
Stanislaus voted for none of them.[snip]

I really don’t like Stanislaus pointing out that he didn’t vote for any of what we know now are dead townies. This smells way too much like scum trying to look like town. If Stanislaus is scum, he would easily be able to avoid jumping on townie bandwagons, and would be sure and point it out to us.

Vote: Stanislaus

Vote: fluiddruid This is a carry-over vote from yesterday. This quote makes me even more suspicious now that we know that Hal is town. It seems like fluiddruid may have know Hal was town much earlier.

@fluiddruid

Consider the current conditions. It’s very likely at this point that Hal will die; if I demote him, he’ll only get re-promoted to the slot again. Inner Stickler becoming Doctor is one of the few benefits to killing Hal, in my mind, and as I stated; subverting that makes no sense.

Normal Phase was a loud voice making a big case on fluiddruid, right up until the moment that she turned up dead.

[Inner_Stickler]

I mean, I’m voting for fluid and all but part of being scum means knifing people to cast suspicion on innocent parties. Don’t let just one piece of data unduly influence you.

[Stanislaus]

@TexCat

I really don’t like Stanislaus pointing out that he didn’t vote for any of what we know now are dead townies. This smells way too much like scum trying to look like town. If Stanislaus is scum, he would easily be able to avoid jumping on townie bandwagons, and would be sure and point it out to us.

The fact is that I was the only person who didn’t vote for the leaders, and it’s a fact that became pretty apparent by looking at the votes. If I’d done that analysis and omitted to reference my own votes in any way, would you now be saying that made me look town?

[fluiddruid]

@TexCat

Vote: fluiddruid This is a carry-over vote from yesterday. This quote makes me even more suspicious now that we know that Hal is town. It seems like fluiddruid may have know Hal was town much earlier.
Normal Phase was a loud voice making a big case on fluiddruid, right up until the moment that she turned up dead.

At the risk of OMGUSing, I really don’t like this vote for a couple of reasons.

1 - It’s a carryover vote from yesterday. Really? Then why are you just placing it right now? Why did you wait so long to be counted and on-record? Nothing in your post seems to indicate any change of position throughout today.

2 - We’re very close to the end of the day, and I’m a vote leader. Chances are, you’re killing me with this vote. And yet it’s incredibly ill-defended and ill-defined.

3 - I don’t see what Hal being Town has to do with what you quoted. Whether or not Hal is Town, it doesn’t matter for the specific purpose of deciding who to promote/demote.

This reeks to me of just slipping in a vote with the pack. I really don’t like this four-way voting since I think it gives people a lot of opportunities to do this. Well, this person may or may not be my best candidate, but I’ll vote for them. Well, I just need a fourth vote and it just happens to be for a strong lynch candidate, even though I won’t really spend time defending it or considering it. I know it seems like more information for Town, but it’s just so much junk information.

In any case, with all three of these put together I just can’t see any reason why this vote could be town-motivated. It looks to me like you wanted to vote for me (in with the pack) and see me dead, and you came up with some random clip of text that you thought might give a better defense than just dropping a vote in unexplained.

I won’t lie: I’ve had scum vibes about you before, but I really wanted a better rationale than that to place a vote.

**unvote NAF

vote TexCat**
Aside to everyone: do we want to brig anyone today? After this being such a big deal overnight, I’m a bit surprised that nobody has brought up who this should be.

[Stanislaus]

I think you should brig Inner. As Engineer and Confirmed Town, he’s the prime target for a Scum kill.

If you brig him, Red becomes Engineer and glowacks becomes Doc. It means we don’t have anyone confirmed in the position of Doc, but that can be taken care of by TexCat promoting fubbleskag to Doctor. We’ll get fubbleskag’s report even if he’s killed overNight, as long as he shows up to make a post. There’s no reason for Red not to watch fubbleskag - however, as unconfirmed we won’t be able to trust his result.

Also, brigging Inner or fubbleskag will mean that their votes won’t count today.

fubbleskag => peekercpa (609), Crackrat (609), TexCat (609), Red Skeezix (609)
Inner Stickler => glowacks (601), fluiddruid (601), Crackrat, TexCat

Whichever one you pick will make no difference to Crackrat or TexCat. But it will make a difference for peeker (2 votes currently), Red (3 votes currently), glowacks and you. However, three of these are well below the leaders, and even you, have two people ahead of you.

On which note

unvote peekercpa

as he’s being investigated and

vote Idle Thoughts because of the remaining non-confirmed, I’m more suspicious of him than I am of glowacks or fluid (and I won’t vote NAF today)

[glowacks]

@Stanislaus

I think you should brig Inner. As Engineer and Confirmed Town, he’s the prime target for a Scum kill.

Which is a good reason for Tex to move Inner to doctor, not to brig him! The absolute last thing we want to to brig people that are actually confirmed when their vote matters. It doesn’t matter how many people are ahead of fluid, the votes are pretty close and every vote matters. Plus, if they’re in the brig they’ll need to be released, and we can’t be certain of the alignment of the officers toMorrow.

[Pleonast]

Day Three Vote Count

All Votes by Voting Player
fluiddruid => peekercpa (607), Red Skeezix (621), Crackrat (623), [del]NAF1138 (623-627)[/del], TexCat (627).
TexCat => Stanislaus (624), fluiddruid (624).
Idle Thoughts => glowacks (603), fluiddruid (603), Crackrat (603), Stanislaus (603).
Inner Stickler => glowacks (601), fluiddruid (601), Crackrat (620), TexCat (620).
Red Skeezix => Stanislaus (615), fluiddruid (615), NAF1138 (615), glowacks (615).
glowacks => Crackrat (611), TexCat (611), Stanislaus (611), fluiddruid (611).
fubbleskag => peekercpa (609), Crackrat (609), TexCat (609), Red Skeezix (609).
Crackrat => no votes.
Stanislaus => Crackrat (589), Red Skeezix (605), TexCat (605), [del]peekercpa (605-628)[/del], Idle Thoughts (628).
NAF1138 => no votes.
peekercpa => no votes.

Net Votes
Crackrat (6) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, glowacks, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
TexCat (5) <= fluiddruid, Inner Stickler, glowacks, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
fluiddruid (4) <= Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, glowacks.
Red Skeezix (3) <= fluiddruid, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
glowacks (3) <= Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix.
Stanislaus (3) <= Idle Thoughts, Red Skeezix, glowacks.
peekercpa (2) <= fluiddruid, fubbleskag.
NAF1138 (1) <= Red Skeezix.
Idle Thoughts (1) <= Stanislaus.

With 10 players eligible to vote, 5 votes are needed to space. With these votes, Crackrat will be spaced. The Day ends in about 3 1/2 hours.

Standing orders: peekercpa will be examined.

[fluiddruid]

@glowacks

Which is a good reason for Tex to move Inner to doctor, not to brig him! The absolute last thing we want to to brig people that are actually confirmed when their vote matters.

Gotta agree here. If we start brigging confirmed town at this stage, we’re pretty much in trouble. Assuming we don’t lynch a scum tonight (which I still feel is quite likely, though granted you can’t know that) we’ll have 9 players tomorrow; with 4 scum, that doesn’t give us much wiggle room.

It doesn’t matter how many people are ahead of fluid, the votes are pretty close and every vote matters. Plus, if they’re in the brig they’ll need to be released, and we can’t be certain of the alignment of the officers toMorrow.

Once TexCat posts his other 2 votes, I’m at 5. Crackrat’s current leader at 6, and both peeker and crackrat have yet to vote. I would be very surprised if we don’t see a switch between now and the end of the day, especially if I’m right about their alignments.

[Stanislaus]

peeker can’t vote, unless you and TexCat let him out of the brig.

The Scum’s first choice of target toNight is a Mate. They don’t want to take people out of the unconfirmed pool. If we brig Inner or fubs, they at least get to live till toMorrow, when we’ll want confirmed town even more than we do today. If one of them is in jail, the engineer can watch the other. If that Engineer is town, Scum won’t kill the remaining Mate because they’ll be seen. If that Engineer is Scum, we’ll be screwed - but no more screwed than if we leave two Mates in the open for Scum to kill.

The question actually is whether we’d be able to let a Mate out tomorrow - it would require a co-operative captain and security officer. But if they don’t release him, they’ll be painting themselves as scum.
Actually, I’ve just done the maths properly - if we don’t lynch scum, and do brig Town, we’ll go from 6-4 outside the brig to 5-4 after lynch, 4-4 after the brigging and 3-4 after the scum kill. At which point we’re dead.

So we can’t brig anybody.

[Stanislaus]

NB Above is worst case - i.e. assuming peeker isn’t Scum. But let’s not take that bet right now.

[TexCat]

@Stanislaus

The fact is that I was the only person who didn’t vote for the leaders, and it’s a fact that became pretty apparent by looking at the votes. If I’d done that analysis and omitted to reference my own votes in any way, would you now be saying that made me look town?

I think your entire argument is scummy. You point out that you did not vote for any of the townie leaders, but you fail to point out that Idle Thoughts and Inner Stickler did vote for the townie leaders. And yet you are using that as a basis for your votes? By that yardstick, aren’t Idle and Inner just as scummy as the people you are voting? If a majority of people didn’t vote for the leaders, then they would not be the leaders would they? And with everyone having 4 votes, it seems to me that your analysis is faulty and that you are trying to use it to both make yourself look townie and cast unreasonable suspicions on the unconfimed town.

Then you say that you think we should brig Inner? I guess that was just a trial scum balloon to see if anyone would go along with it? Sigh. I wish we could vote more than once for the same person.

[glowacks]

@Stanislaus

peeker can’t vote, unless you and TexCat let him out of the brig.

I think some people are confused about how arresting people for the brig works, and I hope I’m not among them, but this is how it appeared to work in the previous game, and how it appears to work from the rules:

The Captain issues an arrest order. That arrest order remains in place until canceled. As long as the arrest order is in place, the security chief can arrest the person in question and cannot release them. If there’s someone in the brig that does not have an arrest order in place on them, the security chief can release them. The Captain can issue one arrest order and cancel one arrest order per day, and the security chief can arrest one person and release one person per day.

The confusing thing is that the form of the necessary captain’s orders does not really match what giving the order actually does. “Arrest Pleonast” places an arrest order on Pleonast, and “Release Pleonast” cancels an arrest order. Neither of those things are necessarily requests for the security chief, but they are actions that generally enable the security chief to do something. This gets really screwy with the Commissar, who ends up in the brig without an arrest order ever being given.

There is no arrest order for peeker, so all that has to happen is that Idle does the actual release. Which is why I suggest that if the captain feels strongly about peeker being scum, an arrest order should be issued to prevent Idle from releasing him. I know “arrest peeker” sounds stupid when peeker’s in the brig, but it’s short for “I want peeker to be in the brig”, not “place peeker in the brig”.

[fluiddruid]

@Stanislaus

peeker can’t vote, unless you and TexCat let him out of the brig.**

Ah, right. Good point. Wonder why he’s not talking though.

Still. I expect a vote swing by the end of the day. If I’m right, do I get a cookie?

[TexCat]

@fluiddruid

Originally Posted by Stanislaus
peeker can’t vote, unless you and TexCat let him out of the brig.**

Ah, right. Good point. Wonder why he’s not talking though.

Still. I expect a vote swing by the end of the day. If I’m right, do I get a cookie?

No matter how many times you quote it, I still couldn’t let peeker out of the brig even if I wanted to. **Idle Thoughts **is the Security Officer.

What do we get if you are wrong? I’d really like to see you or Stanislaus spaced today, but I don’t see that happening. But I’m still going to try and wait until the last minute to demote Inner, just in case.

**Vote: peeker ** I was trying to wait for him to come back to explain himself, but I think it’s likely that he is a scum commissar.

Vote: NAF I don’t currently have a very good guess on the 4th scum. I’d rather vote an inactive than an active townie.

[Pleonast]

Day Three Vote Count

All Votes by Voting Player
fluiddruid => peekercpa (607), Red Skeezix (621), Crackrat (623), [del]NAF1138 (623-627)[/del], TexCat (627).
TexCat => Stanislaus (624), fluiddruid (624), peekercpa (637), NAF1138 (637).
Idle Thoughts => glowacks (603), fluiddruid (603), Crackrat (603), Stanislaus (603).
Inner Stickler => glowacks (601), fluiddruid (601), Crackrat (620), TexCat (620).
Red Skeezix => Stanislaus (615), fluiddruid (615), NAF1138 (615), glowacks (615).
glowacks => Crackrat (611), TexCat (611), Stanislaus (611), fluiddruid (611).
fubbleskag => peekercpa (609), Crackrat (609), TexCat (609), Red Skeezix (609).
Crackrat => no votes.
Stanislaus => Crackrat (589), Red Skeezix (605), TexCat (605), [del]peekercpa (605-628)[/del], Idle Thoughts (628).
NAF1138 => no votes.
peekercpa => no votes.

Net Votes
Crackrat (6) <= fluiddruid, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, glowacks, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
TexCat (5) <= fluiddruid, Inner Stickler, glowacks, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
fluiddruid (5) <= TexCat, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix, glowacks.
Stanislaus (4) <= TexCat, Idle Thoughts, Red Skeezix, glowacks.
peekercpa (3) <= fluiddruid, TexCat, fubbleskag.
Red Skeezix (3) <= fluiddruid, fubbleskag, Stanislaus.
glowacks (3) <= Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler, Red Skeezix.
NAF1138 (2) <= TexCat, Red Skeezix.
Idle Thoughts (1) <= Stanislaus.

With 10 players eligible to vote, 5 votes are needed to space. With these votes, Crackrat will be spaced. The Day ends in about 1 hour.

Standing orders: peekercpa will be examined.

[TexCat]

Demote: Inner Stickler

[Pleonast]

Final vote count is substantially the same as Post 638.

Crackrat is spaced and was a Mutinous Hacker. It is now Night Three and will end tomorrow at 12 noon PT (3pm ET).

1. fluiddruid - Captain
2. TexCat - Executive Officer
3. Idle Thoughts - Chief of Security
4. Red Skeezix - Head of Engineering
5. Inner Stickler - Ship’s Doctor
6. glowacks
7. fubbleskag
8. Stanislaus
9. NAF1138
10. peekercpa - Brig