S’truth…sorry about that. I got tossed a “get this done yesterday” project that sucked up most of my usual posting time the past two days. All done now, though, so now it’s catch-up time.
The results go to the player who made the order not whoever is currently inhabiting the role. What would arresting Chronos do?
FYI, my cookies are packed with girl bits.
If he’s able to receive the result in the brig then it would mean that we could put the doctor out of commission but still receive the results of his test.
It’s not clear if he’d receive the result in the brog though.
This is just an idea I’m putting out there and I’d appreciate others’ views.
I feel he is more suspicious than most but then there are people who haven’t said much. Scum might be just keeping their heads down in the hope that we give each other reasons to vote for ourselves.
I feel that Cookies, Scuba Ben, and Chronos. That’s why I’ve voted for/am considering voting for them. But as has been discussed above, spacing the doctor isn’t a great idea, hence the potential arrest warrant.
Each of those are individually more likely town than scum, but there are scum out there and I think they’re the most likely so far.
Apologies :o
Nice pot/kettle statement.
I don’t like being linked to players merely for agreeing with something that they said, and I’m sure Chronos isn’t too fond of being tied to me like we’re in a three-legged race either. I want to be clear that I am speaking only for myself, but I think it is fair to say that you are misrepresenting us both as “wanting town power roles to tell the engineer who they are”.
In certain conjectured circumstances it seems like reasonable option because it could help to rule out a lot of confusion.
You then go on to make the statement that:
In spite of the fact that the Mod took at least 3 opportunities in the rules to imply otherwise.
So you are willing to stretch for casting suspicion but are not so comfortable when a similar approach is taken with you. Double standards are tricky things, especially if you are a new player and possibly not sensitive to them. To me, they stick out like sore thumbs as anti-town even if they are not manipulative malicious in nature.
If the Security Officer were to put him in the brig before he ordered an examination, Cookies would become Doctor in his place and be able to make the order instead. At least that’s my understanding, based on the Brig order being said to take place immediately.
I don’t expect it to happen, not least because ColdPhoenix is suspicious of Cookies also; hence from his perspective it wouldn’t accomplish much.
These were the comments about secret roles declaring themselves. I’m assuming that Chronos meant declare to the Engineer as declaring to all would definitely alert scum to who they are. I just think that if town have any power roles it’s best that scum don’t find out who they are, and that’s why I thought the suggestion of declarations was slightly scummy. Perhaps my use of “wanting” was a bit strong but I still think that the idea works more in scum’s favour than town’s.
I’ve already admitted I was wrong in saying “we may not even have power roles” as, from what you pointed out, it looks likely that we do. I don’t see what’s scummy in the least about it. But I am new so educate me! 
If it’s not scummy then does that make your vote OMGUS?
Had to try out some of the lingo.
How would the town power roles be able to declare themselves to the Engineer without declaring themselves to everybody?
Downplaying the possibility of undisclosed powers can put the Town at the disadvantage of complacency with the perspective that only the public information applies to the game. This could lead to suspicion of any Townies with hidden roles if those roles and/or their outcome put them at odds with the public rule set. It could also have the same result for any Townies who might get caught up in the ripple effect of any Scum who might have hidden roles.
Quoth Normal Phase:
Ah, so in other words, it’s not the idea itself you objected to, but the thought that it might be a Perfect Information slip? OK, that’s more reasonable. I still want to hear what Darth has to say about it, though.
As for thinking it optimal for Town to cast the same number of votes as there are Scum, basically, with this voting system, we’re setting some threshold of suspicion, and voting for the set of people who lie above that threshold. The question then is where is the appropriate point to set that threshold, and I think that the optimum place to set it is based on the number of Scum. This is just a hunch at this point, and not the result of any rigorous analysis, so I can’t really argue with anyone holding a different view.
Incidentally, about secret roles declaring: There’s no way for them to declare just to the Engineer (communication outside of the thread is forbidden), so unfortunately this would also alert the Scum to their existence, and make them appealing targets. The reason that I think this might be acceptable is that the game setup, by its nature, already gives the Scum multiple appealing targets: They might want to target the Doctor to silence him, or to target a high-ranking officer to move the Scum up the ranks.
Of course, this is only relevant in the first place if there are Town-aligned power roles that require an active interaction with someone else and which the role-holder wants to use, which is far from certain. On the one hand, a Scum power role won’t be influenced by any suggestion I make. On the other hand a Townie with a secret passive power, like a mason, wouldn’t be detected by by the Engineer anyway, so it wouldn’t matter. And on the third hand, we might have something like a Vigilante, where conventional wisdom is that he should voluntarily refrain from using his power the first Night, in which case he also wouldn’t be detected by the Engineer.
ColdPhoenix, I think the same suggestion for the promotion capability – that the XO post the rationale for both people being swapped – ought to extend to arrest warrants. Should you decide to issue an arrest warrant, I would like to see rationales both for the arrest warrant and, in the case of an officer, for the person who is next on the list. (DarkCookies in this case.)
I would like to see the same rationales from the Security chief for executing the arrest.
In other matters, I had a thought regarding the Engineer:
Does this mean that the Engineer will receive separate lists of who the subject interacted with and who interacted with the subject, or one list? That is, if Engineer Inner Stickler monitors Doc Chronos who examines somebody who in turn uses their night action on Chronos, will Inner Stickler get “X interacted with <somebody else>” and also “<somebody else> interacted with Chronos”?
Um. Where is that quote from? Pede isn’t our Mod and that isn’t a quote from our rules. Are you making a metagame question based on another ruleset?
Sorry, used to the quoting behavior of other boards.
This is the quote I was referring to…
…and I see now that it is a component of Pleo’s game-opening-rule for the Head of Engineering in the OP, but that was still a confusing as hell way of trying to quote it as Pede isn’t the mod or even in the game. I’d still like to know where you got it and why there is questionable stuff all over your “quote”.
I had thought PM, but now see that’s forbidden. I guess it’s not possible.
I see what you’re saying but it’s a bit of a stretch and certainly not what I intended.
Fair enough, if/when I order an arrest I’ll keep it in mind.
I see where you’re coming from and was hasty with my accusations. As I voted Cookies for the same reason:
Unvote Cookies
I’m thinking that’s an innocent mistake as Pede was in the Lost game that Scuba Ben was in and Pleonast starts with a P. It is a quote from the rules, see the middle of the Engineer text in the first post.
Arright, time to get things in gear over here.
The first thing that jumps out at me is that the scum have a distinct advantage here that they generally don’t have – the town side is fully out in the open. There’s no way for a vanilla townie to hint at being a power role in order to try and play scumbait. Hopefully this is countered by a lower scum count.
Ok, the play-by-play as I read through:
I’d be very surprised if that wasn’t the case. Hmmm…let me amend that – I don’t think the Captain would be a mutineer, so I’ll say we almost certainly have at least one in the 2-4 group.
Woah woah woah…did I miss something? I’m not seeing anything that would give any indication of that – might you have received some additional info in your PM? (As expected, I now see others have picked up on this as well).
By that logic, town should never vote until there is a major slip-up or confirmed town is able to supply reliable info on who is scum. The town is (almost) always taking a chance when they vote – still, it’s one of the basic tenants of the game. Gotta do it, or all we do is play into the scum’s hand. (And as I get further along, I see Chronos addressed this).
This is one of he problems of coming in late – things you pick up on wind up being already addressed. Lemme read ahead and fill in the blanks later…
Because I confused GM Pleonast with Pedescribe. Shimatta! :smack:
Maybe a better example will help clarify my question.
Taking only the public roles into account, assume Eng. Inner Stickler monitors Doc Chronos, who examines Inner Stickler. There are two possible results from the monitoring, and I want to know which case we have. (For the sake of my example, let’s assume that the Engineer’s monitoring counts as an “interaction.” It probably doesn’t, but that’s a wild guess. See what happened to me on the last Day of Lost Mafia for my success rate with probabilities.)
Case I: All interactions are reported.
Inner Stickler is informed:
- Subject Chronos interacted with Inner Stickler (Doc examination)
- Inner Stickler interacted with subject Chronos (Engineer monitoring – again I doubt this counts as interaction, but it helps with the example)
Case II: Multiple interactions are reported only once.
Inner Stickler is informed only:
- Subject Chronos interacted with Inner Stickler, no indication of who was active.
These cases produce dramatically different sets of information. Which case is present, oh great GM Pleonast?
Hal: I read too much into the initial ruleset. It’s clear that Mutineers in the Brig cannot take part in the Spacing. There is no mention of whether they can or cannot communicate with their fellow Commie Traitor Mutineers on the Scum board.
AOP: Hal, do you have any evidence that the Town side is fully out in the open? The rules say:
The other quirk is that Scum may hold the open roles. That’s almost as unusual as the time I saw a Mafiascum set-up where the Scum did NOT know who else was Scum.
Why do you say the captain wouldn’t be a mutineer?
I had initally (before roles were given out) thought that the captain couldn’t be a mutineer as he’s the captain they’re being mutinous towards but when the roles were given this was part of the intro:
"That’s no asteroid, it’s Captain ShadowFacts! Unfortunately, the Captain and his space suit seem to have been rendered non-functional by an inanimate carbon rod protruding through his chest. Looks like those rumors of a mutiny have come true.
The ship’s computer reports the new crew complement:
- ColdPhoenix – Captain"
So in theory the captain could be a mutineer (he may have been XO under the old captain).
I’m not a mutineer though!
Yes, that was my primary objection to the comment. It’s what I was referring to when I referred to it as a “slip up”. I’ve been following along with the other current game and am starting to realize I’m going to have to be a lot more thorough with explaining the reasoning behind my actions than I was in that post. It’s not what I’m used to doing, but I’ll get there.
Following on from that, if I’m going to object to a possible “perfect information” tell from Scuba Ben, I have to call out ColdPhoenix now for a similar reason. His comment about revealing power roles to the Engineer only struck me as strange last night, but I had no time to follow up on it. Happily, Inner Sticker did.
I find it very hard to credit that someone playing one of these games (and having admittedly followed along with a prior game) could fail to notice the communication rules. Perhaps this is just my background kicking in again: in the games I’m used to, private communication is where the bulk of the game takes place, so the difference here is very striking to me, a defining factor even. That may not be the case for ColdPhoenix. But it’s also possible that his role does allow private communication – that he is a mutineer, in other words – and being new to this, that’s why he assumed that everyone could do the same. It would be a pretty horrific mistake for Scum to make, but I’ve seen worse, so …
vote ColdPhoenix
This assumption is directly contradicted by the opening post, which claims that hidden power roles may be present.
This assumption is also contradicted by Pleonast, who stated that the roles were to be randomized. ColdPhoenix could be a mutineer as easily as anyone else.
Again, if you are Scum, these two mistakes would be incredibly clumsy and unfortunate (in terms of having a good long game), but given that the first one could be meant to encourage people to believe that there are fewer Scum than there actually are; and given that I am also suspicious of ColdPhoenix as described above, I have to add you to my list for making assumptions that could only hurt the Town, if believed.
vote Hal Briston