ColdPhoenix, which do you support – pro/demoting Chronos, or arresting him? And how come?
If I understand the rules correctly (which I’m not doing too well with), arresting somebody lowers the majority to 5 votes for a lynching. I’ll have to think for a bit about whether that would be pro-Crew or pro-Muties.
Day One Current Vote Count
10 players outside the Brig => 6 votes to lynch. No one gets lynched with the current vote count.
ColdPhoenix (3): Scuba_Ben [70], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [95], Normal Phase [120]
Scuba_Ben (3): [del]Scuba_Ben [70-89][/del], Darth Sensitive [79], Normal Phase [83], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies [137]
Darth Sensitive (2): Scuba_Ben [70], Chronos [93]
Normal Phase (2): Scuba_Ben [70], DiggitCamara [131]
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (1): Scuba_Ben [70], [del]ColdPhoenix [87-116][/del]
Ichini Sanshigo (1): Scuba_Ben [70]
Inner Stickler (1): Scuba_Ben [70]
DiggitCamara (1): Scuba_Ben [70]
Hal Briston (1): Scuba_Ben [70], [del]Normal Phase [120-132][/del]
Chronos (0): [del]Scuba_Ben [70-94][/del], [del]ColdPhoenix [87-100][/del]
Doctor Chronos is examining Ichini Sanshigo [130].
Good point about the number required for majority reducing, I hadn’t thought about that.
I need to have a think about it but my initial feeling is that arrest is the best option. It reduces the likelihood of there being no lynch and reduces the chances of the potentially dangerous situation if he gets promoted and then it transpires that someone of a lower rank than him gets lynched. If that happened then he’d be holding the medical results and doing the engineer check. A juicy target for scum if he’s town, or a wealth of info for scum if he’s not.
Failing arrest I’d favour promotion (assuming it is one of the top 4 who gets lynched). His arguments are making sense and seem pro-town (apart from maybe the declaring of secret roles, but even that has a certain validity). I think he’s probably town and so would rather have town in positions of power.
Going back to Post #130 by Chronos again, why exactly do you say that ColdPhoenix and I would have shorter life expectancies than Ichini Sanshigo?
I had a couple of paragraphs written discussing the various possibilities, but on second thought I think I’d rather let you explain your decision more fully yourself. A couple of sentences is not really a justification, especially not when you write so much on everything else.
We need some more votes, whether a lynch happens or not. Right now we’re putting pressure on no one. I’m sure the Scum are thrilled.
As for the possibility of brigging Chronos or moving him around, I’m trying to work through the possibilities to figure out which is best, but it’s slow going.
Responses to my rules questions:
The Engineer gets a single list; if the monitored subject interacts with someone and vice versa, that person shows up only once.
1 bonus: The Doc’s exam is a Day action, not a Night action.
Mutineers in the Brig can participate in Night discussion on the Mutie board. I read too much into the rule.
Lynching is a majority of people not in the Brig.
Do you all want a full PM quote?
Expanding on #3, I much prefer to see more people vote, although not for me. I hope these responses to my rule questions address some of the concern about me.
As to the other concern, that I voted for everybody. I have no idea at this point who is a Mutineer and which of my ship mates are loyal Crew. As I’ve said before, it was the only way I could be sure at that point of voting to lynch a Mutineer, and I plan to not repeat the stunt.
I asked Pleonast about this myself just now, and Scuba Ben’s assertion is accurate. That means the comment that put the votes on him could not have been a slip-up showing he knew something the rest of us didn’t. That was my reason for voting for him in the first place, so I should probably un-vote to avoid looking inconsistent. But I can’t, as I’m getting less and less happy about the fact that there are still four people in the game (Scuba Ben included) who have effectively or completely failed to commit to a vote thus far.
Tell me exactly how does that put any pressure on the Scum, or force them to leave a “paper” trail? It doesn’t. It’s simply crazy from a Town standpoint to leave everyone so far below the spacing threshhold. With over 24 hours to go I’d try to be patient, but not after there being a grand total of zero votes cast so far today. I can see the easy spacing justification coming for me already tomorrow: “Normal Phase didn’t even care if anyone was lynched!”, and I won’t allow it. This current situation was never what I meant by that.
Vote remains on Scuba Ben, since while his mass voting does push everyone closer to the threshhold, it completely fails by the other standard of usefulness of accusations; that is, it forces no one to defend or justify themselves. As for the people who have not voted at all:
vote Hal Briston
vote Inner Stickler
Ichini Sanshigo gets a forced pass because of Chronos’s examination.
Quoth Normal_Phase:
As I said, I had a friend visiting over the weekend, so didn’t have as much time. My thought at the time was that, all else being equal, higher-ranked officers would be more likely Scum targets, since ideally they’d probably want to lynch somebody who outranked all of them (if possible), since then all of the Scum would advance by one rank. On thinking about it more, of course, the very fact that I’m examining Ichini makes him a more appealing Scum target (assuming he’s Town), so my reasoning probably fails. But I figured it was a good idea to get an examination order in before a brigging (if any), so I wanted to get it in then, and there didn’t really be any particularly strong case for any one of those three over the others, and I didn’t have the time to give it as much thought as I probably should have.
If you still have thoughts on examination priority, it’d still be good to post them, since if nothing else, it’ll help whomever is the Doctor toMorrow.
Incidentally, my friend has left now, so I’ll have more time to re-read recent discussion and probably add another vote or two.
You’re right, it’s not a force, it’s more of a request. (Plus I was away from Internet all weekend.)
That’s a good enough reason here on Day 1. Unvote Ichini Sanshigo
I’ll read the thread closely tonight and see if anything jumps out at me.
A review of the votes thus far, and the reasons for them:
70: Scuba votes everyone. There’s no real content here; with Scuba’s use of the voting system, the real information is in his unvotes.
Darth Sensitive votes Scuba. The reason given is Scuba’s assumption that brigged Muties can’t talk with other Muties, which seems to me a weak reason to base a vote on, since it’s largely irrelevant. I’ve already placed a vote here.
Normal Phase votes Scuba, also related to Scuba’s assumption, but later clarified as meaning that he thought it might be PIS. OK, I don’t agree with it, but that’s probably a reasonable reason to vote Day 1.
[url=“http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11416628&postcount=87”]ColdPhoenix votes Chronos and Cookies, later clarified as being based on our suggestion that Town secret roles declare before using powers. But in the same post, he says there might not be Town secret roles at all, which would make our suggestion meaningless. I’m not sure how to reconcile these, but he’s since retracted both votes.
Scuba unvotes himself. Still no real content here.
I (Chronos) vote for Darth, for reasons described above. Obviously I think this was a reasonable vote.
Scuba unvotes me, since I’m the Doctor. This is a rational reason to not vote for someone, so we’re starting to see some voting content from Scuba here.
Cookies votes ColdPhoenix for downplaying the secret roles. I think this was reasonable at the time, but I’d like to see some more commentary by Cookies on this, now that ColdPhoenix has both acknowledged the (presumed) existence of the secret roles and unvoted her and me.
ColdPhoenix unvotes me since I’m the Doctor. Again, I think this is a good reason to not vote for someone.
ColdPhoenix unvotes Cookies since he thinks he was hasty with his reasoning.
Normal Phase votes ColdPhoenix and Hal respectively for failing to notice the communication rules, and for making mistakes about the secret roles and who the Muties might be. I don’t think that either looks particularly Scummy; both appear to be newbie mistakes rather than Scum tells. Normal has since retracted the vote on Hal as being probably just mistakes, but not on ColdPhoenix, even though the cases look fairly similar to me. ColdPhoenix still had another case on him, whereas Hal doesn’t, so this could be Scum looking for a bandwagon. Vote Normal Phase
DiggitCamara votes Normal Phase based on his vote on ColdPhoenix. Since I just voted for the same reason, I obviously think this is a rational vote.
Normal unvotes Hal, but not ColdPhoenix. See discussion a few lines up.
Cookies votes Scuba for voting everyone. OK, I’ll grant that Scuba’s vote everyone tactic isn’t all that useful for Town, so this is a rational vote, though he’s starting to narrow it down now. Ideally, I’d like to see Scuba unvote a few more people (whomever he thinks most likely to be Town), and Cookies’ reaction if/when he does so. At the very least, it’s more useful than those who have voted for nobody-- FOS Cookies for not voting them, too
Normal Phase votes Hal and Stickler based on neither of them having a vote in place yet. He acknowledges that Scuba’s belief about Muties not talking in the Brig can’t have been PIS, but also keeps his vote on him because his vote-all tactic doesn’t put pressure on anyone. Since he’s also voting for those who haven’t voted at all, this is consistent. It’s a low-controversy reason for a vote, but a legitimate one.
[url=“http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11430539&postcount=148”]Scuba unvotes Ichini** since he’s the examination subject. It’d be a waste to space someone right before they would be examined, so this is reasonable.
I just noticed that my vote kind of gets lost in that post. To be sure that Pleo notices it,
Vote Normal Phase
And the last link should be
Scuba unvotes Ichini
I still have a vote on ColdPhoenix because his string of statements and play made in apparent newbieness could have been sloppy newbie scum. It certainly bodes better for him that he’s removed his questionable votes, but I can’t quite shake the notion that he’s just telling us what we want to hear, and that is what I have so far in my Day 1 gutcheck.
I would also like to hear more from Darth. I am also voting for Scuba, it is not for the same reasons and I’d like to hear what Darth has to say about what has been said since he placed his vote. Darth’s participation level is comparatively low as well, and as there seems to be not much emphasis on the folks at the bottom of the ranking, if Chronos does end up in the brig, I’d consider doing a Doctor investigation on Darth instead of Ichini.
I dislike the idea of throwing Chronos in the brig. I’m inclined to unvote people who supported pro/demoting him.
I’m also well aware that I’m in my usual pattern, where I draw a plain Town (Crew) role and almost immediately set off everybody’s Scum (Mutineer) alerts. I’ve done this in all three of my past games, I seem to be doing so again.
Chronos finds a reason to vote for the one person in the game who is putting any pressure on him at the moment – not a surprise. In any case the argument makes no sense. I removed the vote from Hal Briston because it was admittedly badly reasoned. A new player might make the kind of mistake that ColdPhoenix has gotten votes for, but Hal Briston’s mistakes were too big and too obviously wrong (and Hal Briston himself not a new player, to my knowledge) to fit well as anything other than inattention. They’re not comparable, and as I said earlier I realized that as soon as I thought about it a bit. My own mistake was placing the vote, not removing it.
Also please consider that if I were Scum, the very last thing I would want to do would be to be seen to push the execution of the only player above me in the hierarchy. I know this could be a seen as a “wine in front of me” sort of thing, and unfortunately for convincing you all of this I did say that it had occurred to me I might get trouble for not voting ColdPhoenix, but to make the first vote myself? (Scuba Ben doesn’t count.) Just … no.
Huh? The closest thing I can find to you putting pressure on me is a suggestion to throw me in the Brig so Cookies can investigate instead. And you’re not even the only one to suggest brigging me: ColdPhoenix (who actually has some power in this area) has twice said that he might do so, and I’ve even indirectly suggested my own brigging.
I don’t follow. If you were Scum, you would in fact want to lynch the person immediately ahead of you. The only reason you wouldn’t want to do so would be if Town considered doing so suspicious, but nobody (other than you) has said anything about that.
A reminder, everyone: We need over half of the living, unbrigged players to make a lynch, and we’re still at least three votes short of that. We currently have four players who have no vote in place at all: Find some reason, any reason, to cast a vote (or votes)-- No lynch is very bad for Town.
Also remember, Day ends in just over 13 hours, and future Days are going to be significantly shorter. We’re going to need a lot more vote activity here, if we’re not going to just passively sit back and let the Muties slaughter us all.
Vote Inner Stickler – due to lack of activity. Trying to keep their head down? Would have also voted for Ichini but as they’re having a medical we should get some info on them later.
I got a vote because my mistake was only minor? A mistake’s a mistake in my opinion. You don’t get to choose how big it is, you just make it. It’s not the vote for me that I find suspect but the lack of consistancy with your removal of Hal’s vote. It draws suspicion to you both:
Vote Normal Phase
Vote Hal Briston
And finally, in self-defence:
Vote Scuba_Ben
I thought I’d better add, I really don’t think that **Scuba **is scum but I *know *I’m not scum. I may well be unvoting him in the next few hours if someone else who I’ve voted for equals his number of votes.
I don’t really like Normal Phase’s comment about lynching directly above you. I feel like its a bit of misdirection to get the rest of us on one track while the muties go another way.
Vote Normal Phase
I also don’t like how ready ColdPhoenix is to arrest Chronos. If the muties could get a couple townies thrown in the brig, it wouldn’t be very hard to control the voting.
Vote ColdPhoenix
I’ve re-skimmed the thread and nothing jumps out at me. I’ll wait for the latest vote count before I make near-Day-end moves.
I don’t like my options. But I’ve dug this hole myself, yet again.
Meanwhile, my only other thought is to offer a deal.
Ben1: To ColdPhoenix, I’ll unvote you and not revote you in exchange for you unvoting me and not revoting me. (Do I have Haggle terminology correct?)
Promise me if I wind up spaced you’ll all take a very close look at Chronos? He’s being disingenuous when he says that I haven’t put any pressure on him – I can’t vote for him due to him being the Doctor, but I have stated more than once that his actions seem to be calibrated to benefit mostly himself despite being rationalized as serving the Town as a whole; and I’ve challenged nearly everything he’s said.
If it looks like I or ColdPhoenix is going to be spaced, I plan to promote Chronos, to keep him out of the Engineer role tonight. That will result in the following officer hierarchy:
Captain: me or ColdPhoenix
XO: Ichini Sanshigo
Security: Chronos
Engineer: Inner Stickler
Doctor: Cookies
I didn’t get a chance to comment on this last night:
This was what I thought you would say, and the reasoning does fail. Let me also point out that the first one to bring up brigging you was you yourself, therefore any pressure you felt to rush out an ill-reasoned choice at that point was entirely self-inflicted. You could as easily have requested that no decision be made on that until yesterday or today, so that you would have time to deal with your guests and still make an unrushed choice. Other than myself, no one seems to find you particularly suspicious (and you claim you don’t even believe that what I’ve been doing constitutes any danger to you), so you have no reason to believe such a request would not be honored.
From your post #154:
[quote]
Quote:
Chronos finds a reason to vote for the one person in the game who is putting any pressure on him at the moment – not a surprise.
This is very inconsistent comment. You can’t claim in one context (night kills) that of course the Scum would want to get rid of top officers to move themselves up, then claim in another (daytime spacing) that nobody would ever suspect me of voting ColdPhoenix in order to move myself and my Scummy mate or mates up. It simply doesn’t follow.
ColdPhoenix says:
I don’t know how I can be any clearer. I left your vote on you because you are new; hence more likely to make a careless giveaway like that.
Spaced or not spaced, I couldn’t be happier with the way things are going right now. Well, I could if just Ichini Sanshigo or Hal Briston would show up and comment.