Well, I leave for a couple of days and come back to a couple of dead masons. Shame they didn’t even get the chance to become shriners. I assume since the death certificate said “town mason” we can assume the masons are part of the town.
I guess if there is only one mason remaining, it would not do any good for them to claim now. If there are two, I understand that they should claim, but should they do it immediately or when one is likely to be lynched? If there are three, I guess they shouldn’t claim and just take the chance that two of them won’t be offed the same night. I doubt there are more than three, but if there are it wouldn’t matter since they could still take a double hit and have at least two left.
The town got unlucky last night, but the Cabalists got unlucky at the beginning of the game when two of the players assigned to them played in a way to garner an unusual amount of suspicion. Kitten was picking up votes before straggler took over the lead on Day 1. I believe it is possible that some fellow cabalists threw straggler under the bus (and with good reason). They (probably) could not afford to bus a second member though. They (assuming more than one other, could be wrong) needed to guide the vote to someone else. Sitnam is the person who picked up the most votes outside those two. While I think Sitnam has a tendency to read more into things than is there (such as sachetorte’s comment when Pleonast was killed), I haven’t seen him do anything to garner much more suspicion than anyone else. Almost Human voted for Sitnam both times. I have suspected AH since she seemed to want people to casually accept that my “scum can day-talk” assumption should be an automatic vote against me. In post 197, AH also sort of defends kitten. It wasn’t a real defense, but a suggestion that kitten seemed more of an overwhelmed townie. Anyway, it seemed designed to steer the vote away from kitten. So, while my vote can always be changed with a good argument, for now
I need a Hero. I’m holding out for a **Hero **til the end of the Night. He’s gotta be strong and he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight.
I picked **Hero **at random to analyze.
Here are Hero’s game posts: Post 137: Confirming role
Post 160: Vote Pleonast for the comment about us having 7 mislynches. ***Pleo *did turn up as a werewolf
Post 172: **Almost **had said, “The way I see it we should be looking hard for scum every Day”, **Hero **reacted sarcastically.
Post 187: This was in the midst of the comments about **oredigger **me too’ing Pleonast. Hero ends up unvoting **Pleo **and voting for **Seeker **because seeker followed up Pleonast’s vote of **Oredigger **with a me too vote. Complicated enough? GO back and re-read it. It confused me for a while.
Post 210: Seems to be encouraging discussion. Makes the comment that it’s easiest for Scum to hide in the advisor role. I’m not sure that’s true, but it’s a valid opinion.It’s Ironic that he ends up giving game advice.
Post 221: Reposts the rules about communication out of the main thread. Make no comment. This will lead to trouble later. Post 249 Hero comments that he was just posting the rules to allow people to come to their own conclusions. Others didn’t like this and wondered what his opinion was. He does give his opinion, that Scum may or may not be able to talk during the Day. Post 253: Directed at Seeker. Suggest that he check out peeker’s other games. ***Seeker *had been attacking peeker’s style of posting.
Post 257: More comments on the posting of when Scum can and can’t talk. Here it is:
Post 258: Indicates his interpretation of the rule change leads him to believe we have a 3rd party
Post 260: Asks **Adrian **for his definition of a bandwagon. Adrian replies that it is a bunch of me too votes with no added information.
Post 262: **Hero **asks Adrian, “Why did you feel it was your responsibility to stop a bunch of me too posts?” Adrian’s reply, “Hero, how often do I have to repeat myself? I didn’t think it was justified. Exhaustive explanations above.”
At this point, I start a comment on the Adrian/mental guy snuggles.
Post 277: Banter with peeker, not related to the game.
Post 337: A little more of the stuff with ok11 mischaracterizing his post hat contained the rules with no opinion on them. To be honest, a few people expressed opinions on them and seemed to want everyone to comment on them. To me, it was apparent that the scum might or might not be able to talk during the Day, and I was ready to move on from there. For Some people, it became an important issue to talk about.
Post 347: A synopsis of the issue **Hero **had with ok11.
Post 379: Calling **Seeker **back. Says that he garnered some suspicion and disappeared.
Post 390: Comments on the ‘snuggling’ and ‘teaming up’
Post 399: Gives **straggler **game advice (and an insult) about trusting anyone who isn’t confirmed.
Post 405: Apologizes to straggler, but still indicates he doesn’t think straggler’s snuggle with **Pleo **makes sense unless **straggler **is Scum. Pretty interesting with hindsight, no?
Post 463: Unvotes Seeker, Votes ok11. States that his vote is because **ok11 **shouldn’t vote for **seeker **since he’s not around to defend himself.
Post 482: Makes it clear that he voted for **ok11 **for the timing of his vote. States that Seeker’s behavior is scummy, but why did **OK11 **wait until after it was clear that **Seeker **wouldn’t be returning to vote for him?
Day 2
Post 549: Defends himself from a comment by **Ichini **(Seeker’s replacement) and votes for Ichini. Ichini had stated that he was suspicous of **Hero **for his vote on **Pleo **for bad math. **Hero **responded that it wasn’t the bad math that garnered the vote, but the intentially misleading information **Pleo **presented that had him vote.
Post 552: Defends his vote for Ichini. It’s difficult to summarize. Go read it yourself.
Post 554: Clarifies how he found Pleo’s math misleading. Ends with “I wish I could see the look on Pleo’s face when he read the death report.”
Post 629: Shows how Ichini’s timeline is wrong in assuming why **Hero **voted for Seeker.
Post 633: Continuing the back and forth with Ichini. I think **Hero **is winning the argument, but I’m not sure if it tells us anything about the alignment of either.
Post 650: States he didn’t know of the curse, and also states that he thought **Pleo **wasn’t targeted and didn’t die because of a tie. He mistakenly calls **Pleo **Ped, but corrects that mistake later. It doesn’t make sense that he’d be talking of Ped. What I find interesting is that he seems to know how **Pleo **died. Is this a leak of PIS?
Of course not. But I don’t see how you being confusing helps anything.
You didn’t actually vote. Than you unvoted. On top of your weird language I have to double guess even your votes? Help us out a little bit here and at least proof-read your crazyness to make sure it is exactly as crazy as you intend. Being snide and telling me to “keep up” sure doesn’t help.
(Disclaimer: I don’t completely follow the numbers.) Why would eliminating the Cabalists be a problem? If in this scenario they hit town twice as often as they hit scum, then wouldn’t it be better if they were gone?
My top two suspects on Day 2 were Sitnam and Ichini. Now that we know kitten’s alignment, I’m less suspicious of Sitnam, because he helped to lynch scum both Days. So while it’s possible that he’s a werewolf, for now he’s done more to help the town than hurt it. So today, I’ll Vote Ichini
Before, I was suspicious of her based on Seeker’s behavior. Now, in addition to that, I think she’s scum based on her OMGUS vote. Messing up the Day 1 vote sequence/reasons seems like a null tell, because she’s a sub, and I can’t see the scum motivation for misstating something so easily-verifiable. But the way Ichini reacted when Hero corrected her is scummy.
I decided to go back and take a look at the voting from Day one to see if I could find any patterns from our known three scum. I started when the voting became interesting on page ten and the first vote count looked like:
1 - [Undecided] Adrian (Natlaw)
1 - BillMC (Pleonast)
1 - Oredigger77 (Seeker of Truth and Beauty)
1 - Pleonast (peekercpa)
1 - Seeker of Truth and Beauty (Hero From Sector 7G)
3 - Sitnam (Nanook of the North Shore, Almost Human, straggler)
4 - willthekittensurvive? (special ed, [Undecided] Adrian, MentalGuy, Batman Jenkems)
1 - peekercpa (Sitnam)
3 - straggler (paulwhoisaghost, pedescribe, Oredigger77)
1 - No Lynch (willthekittensurvive?)
Shortly there after Pleo tied up the vote
1 - [Undecided] Adrian (Natlaw)
1 - Oredigger77 (Seeker of Truth and Beauty)
1 - Pleonast (peekercpa)
2 - Seeker of Truth and Beauty (Hero From Sector 7G, ok11)
3 - Sitnam (Nanook of the North Shore, Almost Human, straggler)
4 - willthekittensurvive? (special ed, [Undecided] Adrian, MentalGuy, Batman Jenkems)
1 - peekercpa (Sitnam)
4 - straggler (paulwhoisaghost, pedescribe, Oredigger77, Pleonast)
1 - No Lynch (willthekittensurvive?)
With this post
bleached
I think that creating a tie was the goal because then the contentious players would still be around while there and the danger in getting caught was small. I mainly see this in the light of knowing that Pleo was scum but I think it’s a fair assumption to make. Then it gets interesting, Natlaw creates a three way tie.
bleached
I don’t like this post because of two things it defends known (now) scum and creates an even larger pool of people that could be revenged lynched by the mod. Another problem is that with a tie the people with the votes are in no danger of being lynched just the voters so the top three candidates are safe while the 12 voters are now in danger of a random selection. BillMC breaks the tie without a lot of reason
bleached
But I view this as pro-town because it breaks the tie.
This sequence is suspicious enough that I think Natlaw will be another cabalist Vote Natlaw
I’ve already written this once and the bastard board timed out and ate my post so this one isn’t going to be as eloquent - sorry.
So you’re voting for me because I “seemed to want people to casually accept that my “scum can day-talk” assumption should be an automatic vote against me.” and that I sort of defended kitten.
Let’s discuss the first part of that. I voted for you due to this post:
Note here you say CAN talk during the Day so way to misrepresent me when you say I "Seemed to want people to casually accept that my “scum can day-talk” assumption should be an automatic vote against me.
Why I’m your choice I don’t know as your slip was pointed out far sooner:
and
And I gave the reason for my vote here:
and followed up later after some back and forth between us with an unvote here stating exactly why I’d voted and why I was now unvoting:
Please explain to me how I “seemed to want people to casually accept that my “scum can day-talk” assumption should be an automatic vote against me”.
So those were my reasons for voting and unvoting you on Day 1 - pretty reasonable for a Day 1 too I think.
But now we have more information with the extra dead players and hey look - apart from kitten, every single one of them thought scum could Day talk:
(snipped and bleached)
Granted UA was town but he was also a mason. What’s the betting masons can now talk during the Day and he therefore assumed scum could too.
Straggler - cabalist:
Pleonast - werewolf:
(snipped and bolded)
Bolding because I just want to point out Pleo said it was natural for newbies to call scum wolves - irony or cover up?
Nanook - again town, but again mason so in a group.
My conclusion is the people who assumed scum could Day talk turned out to be scum or masons. Nobody else that I’m aware of was quite so adamant and none were as adamant as mentalguy. I think most of us may well have thought it likely but that’s about it.
To answer your second point against me - that I sort of defended kitten. So what? I saw it as overwhelmed town, others saw it as newbie scum. They were right, I was wrong. If I was right every time there’d be no point playing the game.
So for the reasons I voted for you on Day 1 now looking even more like PIS than they did originally. For your complete misrepresentation of my arguments against you and voting with very weak reasoning. And finally, while it may not be relevant but maybe it is, in light of the fact we have werewolves in this game and you used the term I’m going to
vote mentalguy
OMGUS? More I’d forgotten about you till you voted for me and in rereading to defend myself I seem to have found more reasons to find you scummy.
Yes, the executive summary is that although three plus three equals six scum seems like a ‘normal’ scum number for twenty players, but with scum able to be Night killed it doesn’t seem balanced. So that means the scum factions are more likely to be bigger (or one big, one smaller with more powers).
Some major snippage, still a lot left with underlining by me:
Again this is what I noticed Yesterday, making smudging comments, then saying you really mean nothing by it. Though I get now the feeling you are deliberately trying to get people to bite (congrats, I did then) and hoping for them to make a mistake of some sorts?
In my view, that works from both a scum or town perspective, though leaning to the scum side (hence my vote Yesterday).
About the things underlined, did you see a town, scum or some other motivation? Again this was a suggestion you made, but don’t do yourself.
Also, why specifically pick a random person to check out? Why not pick someone you had a ping about (which I would do sooner). Or look at the votes with the new alignments revealed?
Speaking of which, that got me a vote from Oredigger and it is something I noticed myself, so I’ll go respond to that.
For pedescribe, could you still rephrase the curse thing?
First of all, I had no intention to let the tie stand or meant to create a big ‘revenge pool’. I actually started my post before Pleonast and Hero voted, but with a five minute search wait and reading another site, I took my time.
I FoS’ed straggler to indicate where I would move my vote, though I’ll admit a scum would probably leave that option open, if he created a tie like that.
My tie creating vote does look suspicous with the two alternatives turning up Cabal, but the reasons for a Cabalist not to vote like I did:
-Creating a tie is bad as scum, it draws attention;
-Sitnam, BillMC and rexnourves (now Svinlesha) hadn’t voted yet when I did, so it wasn’t all that likely Sitnam would get lynched - making it a even bigger risk;
-If I were Cabal, I would totally have yelled at straggler (if Day talk) and kitten (at Night if no Day talk) to shape up, especially if I risked a vote like that to save them.
First two points would go for Werewolf as well, though you didn’t accuse me of one - just want to make clear I’m town.
Voting records (not all unvotes from Day One included, if you want them I can post them):
Note there were a lot more unvotes, but I only included the ones on straggler and kitten.
Day Two: kitten (6): Oredigger, Nanook, Adrian, MentalGuy, Sitnam, special ed Sitnam (3): AHuman, Svinlesha, ok11 Hero (2): Ichini, pedescribe special ed (1): Natlaw MentalGuy (1): BillMC Ichini (1): Hero
So only other person ‘saving’ Cabalist Day One was Almost Human (assuming Sitnam is not Cabal, which is against the odds imo). MentalGuy is now voting for her for that reason.
AH voted MentalGuy Day One and with Todays votes for each other, I doubt they are the same faction. Couple that with MentalGuy placing the fourth vote for kitten at one point (so he is probably not Cabal) that leaves it open for AH to be a Cabalist.
Almost Human placed her vote for Sitnam that Day when the score was straggler 1 - kitten 3 - Sitnam 1. I agreed with her reasons to vote him though.
Day Two, Almost Human placed the first vote for Sitnam again, however at that point kitten had already collected four votes.
So using the Cabal motivation for Almost Human’s vote is would have been less risky and Day Two a consistent vote, though unlikely to save kitten. Today Sitnam got a quick vote/unvote from her as well - I’ll have to reread to see if the “My gut’s telling me he’s scum but I guess that isn’t really a good enough reason to keep a vote on him” makes sense. I can think of that he voted Cabalist twice - but a wolf could do that (For the record, AH did not mention he could not be one).
On the same motivation thought, why would scum get too involved in a voting mess of the first Day? I’ll take another look at the one off voters Day One: Ichini, peekercpa, ok11 and Hero.
Just a quick note on you’re scum wouldn’t do that idea. #1 is obviously wrong because Pleo was scum and created a two way tie right before you created the three way tie.
I disagree with #2 because while you’re right that there is a large chance it wouldn’t work that chance is what gives you deniability, especially if it had worked. You would be here posting that it wasn’t your fault because the other four hadn’t voted yet it was one of them that had push to vote in the wrong direction.
I think you’re right about the night talk that was given to kitten because he disappeared yesterday and I think it was to try and lower the suspicion level, which is some good advice normally.
Underlined section #1: When **Hero **reposted the rules with no interpretation, it did lead to a great deal of conversation and eventually some votes. My feeling at the time was that he was reposting the rules. It was no big deal. Now that it’s brought to my attention again, it might be interesting to see why it was such a big deal for some people.
Underlined Section #2: Some people wanted to talk a great deal about if the Scum could Day talk or not. I didn’t really see what talking about it would lead to… Could we figure it out? No. I felt it was best to acknowledge the possibilities, and act accordingly. Some people seemed to want a definitive decision. I didn’t attribute any scumminess to either side of the debate. I was only pointing out that some of Hero’s posts dealt with the debate.
Underlined section #3: I just thought it was interesting. Obviously it illuminates nothing about **Hero **or any other living person. I just kinda felt it was interesting that he said the snuggle didn’t make sense unless **straggler **was Scum. Then straggler turns up Scum, but so does Pleo. And they’re on different factions! It’s interesting. Is it useful, not so much.
Underlined section #4: An honest question. This could be a leak of PIS. It might not be. If there were other things that looked scummy for Hero, then it could be added to the pile. Standing alone, it doesn’t look like much.
Underlined section #5: I looked at Hero’s posts hoping to find something that would either lead to suspicion on him or even on someone else. I didn’t find it, but I still decided to share my research with everyone. I hoped it might spark some debate or conversation if not be a useful analysis itself.
I was looking for things with a Town, Scum, or some other motivation. I wasn’t really able to unearth anything blatantly anti-town or pro-scum. I really ended up with a non-feeling more than a feeling. I really couldn’t guess as to Hero’s alignment at this point from his posting.
I’m not sure why I picked someone at random, I just did. And I just might do it again.
I’m not seeing the smudginess that you claim to see, just a brief history of one player’s post along with some very brief comments. Had I found something more noteworthy, I probably would have said so.
One drawback I did find to this approach is that it does tend to limit your focus on interactions that may involve more than just 2 people.
Well I feel sufficiently chastised. I was trying to poke the ant hill. My unvote was to make sure that digger was aware and that a real sticking vote could be forthcoming.
And I no knot of the weird language that ewe (Hal reference) set fourth. Please edumacate me.
As for the crazyness, can’t do much about it. It’s the way I play.
Peeker I don’t think you are following this game very close at all. Have you done any re-reading? How many times have you read just the posts that have happened toDay?
Don’t no where this is coming from. Anything specific? Seriously, I’d just like to know your Current viewpoint.
Any help would be appreciated.
PEEKSPLANATION: What you got? I am trying to engage in dialogue in order to see what falls out. If you think that this is anti-town then friggin’ just post it. Holy crud. But this smudgy way that you have of playing is not necessarily endering.
Peeksplanation 2: stop it or say something direct.
Seriously, lame ass attacks on this old fuck will be challenged.
Tell me how to play to make you happy. Is that seriously what you want.
Shoot, we went through an entire day that the Mother Loving Og admitted SUCKED. Is the silence something where you find comfort. Are intense discussions uncomfortable?