Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler

The Game Room
2241

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
BlasterMaster’s vote oddly stands out, since he picks the flimsiest of possible explanations (given other reasoning) to vote for Lemur866
[/QUOTE]

It’s little slips like that that matter the most. Obviously, I wason’t the first to point that out. However, I did notice it as I was reading through and catching up. When I see things like that that I want to respond to, I open a response in a new tab, and keep going. By the time I had caught up and was ready to call him out on it, tirial had already done so, and thus it was pointless. I had spent a large amount of the day defending myself against tirial’s ludicrous onslaught and had lost track that I had not yet voted. Also at that point, while I was very suspicious of SCL, I was beginning to think it was a town vs. town thing between her and Idle and, hence, I voted where I felt was a safer vote in what I viewed as a massive slip (akin to what got nesta killed in M2).

Still, I don’t understand this idea that all scum must have voted for scum. As I told Hal, this is running on the assumption that the scum are stupid and aren’t aware of such an obvious pattern.

2242

[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
Wonderful. 2200+ posts, and I’m getting thrown up for a lynch on “gut feeling”. Seriously, what I have done that’s drawing so much suspicion?
[/QUOTE]

It’s not just a gut feeling, it’s your voting record. Those two factors, together.

Unfortunately, voting record is not enough to go on on its own. Hours of creating and studying the spreadsheet have taught me that. But gut feelings have taken me down the wrong road too. When it really comes down to it, I have yet to be right about anyone except for** fluiddruid**. And that vote was pretty much a bandwagon. I’m going to be right sooner or later, and I have to use both intuition and fact. This is the closest I’ve come so far, and it’s pointed me to you.

Also, I want you to do one thing for me, if you want to show me you’re helping the town: Who do you think should be lynched today? Give me a sincere answer, not a strategic one. (What I mean by that is that, for example, you can say Diggit, but you can’t say him just because he’s the most likely other candidate right now.) Be transparent. Tell us who you think the real enemy is. Let us pick you brain a little. That will help us a whole lot right now.

2243

[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
It’s little slips like that that matter the most. Obviously, I wason’t the first to point that out. However, I did notice it as I was reading through and catching up. When I see things like that that I want to respond to, I open a response in a new tab, and keep going. By the time I had caught up and was ready to call him out on it, tirial had already done so, and thus it was pointless. I had spent a large amount of the day defending myself against tirial’s ludicrous onslaught and had lost track that I had not yet voted. Also at that point, while I was very suspicious of SCL, I was beginning to think it was a town vs. town thing between her and Idle and, hence, I voted where I felt was a safer vote in what I viewed as a massive slip (akin to what got nesta killed in M2).

Still, I don’t understand this idea that all scum must have voted for scum. As I told Hal, this is running on the assumption that the scum are stupid and aren’t aware of such an obvious pattern.
[/QUOTE]

(bolding mine). Sure about that? Just about everyone else isn’t. When CaerieD (one of Mafia2, by the way, pointed out a similar instance, during this very game)…
and just about everyone and their children jumped down her throat for that (last, but not least, the infractor during Mafia 2 himself )

Second: Have you looked at day 6? Not only did **Rachm **(known scum ™) vote for his teammate Lemur866 at a stage where it made no sense to do so, but of the 7 people still in the game, 4 voted for him. Granted, both remaining scum might conceivably be among those 3 (Hal, Millit and Cookies) but it’s odds on that at least 1 scum is hiding are hiding among the lynchers of Lemur866.

2244

Let me correct my last post:

Sure about that? Just about everyone else isn’t. When CaerieD (one of Mafia2, by the way), pointed out a similar instance, during this very game…just about everyone and their children jumped down her throat for that (last, but not least, the infractor during Mafia 2 himself )

2245

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Let me correct my last post:

Sure about that? Just about everyone else isn’t. When CaerieD (one of Mafia2, by the way), pointed out a similar instance, during this very game…just about everyone and their children jumped down her throat for that (last, but not least, the infractor during Mafia 2 himself )
[/QUOTE]

And if memory serves, at least one person called out that it was “interesting” or "suspicios " (or something like that) of me to suggest that trying to pawn such use of slang as compelling evidence was assanine. So it has been going both ways.

My perspective on the issue hasn’t really changed since then, for the record

2246

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]

And I asked you a question yesterday which you haven’t answered yet: Why didn’t you disclose your identity to town far earlier?
<snipped>

And, like I said from Day One: The main advantage scum has over town is knowledge. By not breaking your already flimsy cover you were helping scum, since you were concealing information from (some? few?) townies.
[/QUOTE]

And if I had disclosed it you and Lemur866 would have made a very strong attempt to lynch me instantly simply for being the doctor. You made it impossible for me to roleclaim on two grounds:

a) I knew I hadn’t been recruited, so the lynch would have been wasted.
b) The other advantage the town has is that in practice one townie can’t be nightkilled.

Should I have ignored both of these so that two players I thought were scum could have got me lynched? If I had, would we have got Rachm Qoch and lemur866? (The answer is that it seems unlikely).

2247

[QUOTE=tirial]
(snipped)

Should I have ignored both of these so that two players I thought were scum could have got me lynched? If I had, would we have got Rachm Qoch and lemur866? (The answer is that it seems unlikely).
[/QUOTE]

Let me get this straight: you don’t believe the lemur866 was a setup? I’d love to hear your take on lynch.

Also: for the record, I don’t think you had me on your suspicion list before my disclosure of your role yesterday

(bolding mine)

so I don’t think your rationalization applies.

2248

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Let me get this straight: you don’t believe the lemur866 was a setup? I’d love to hear your take on lynch.
[/QUOTE]

Not really - I think rachm wasn’t expecting so many people to agree, but once they did changing his vote would be suicide.

However if it was, then as Millet says it would get “Rachm off the hook (this worked on me), and possibly also Diggit, nesta and tirial”. Oh look. Your name is there, Blastermaster’s isn’t.

As for you not being on my scum list, please re-read the part of my post you quoted (bolding mine):

Now spot what I thought occurred. Scum (you) defended townie (SCL). And note the three I named, **Rachm, Diggit and Blastermaster ** - guess what my second tier suspect list was?

By the way, I didn’t notice you saying anything about my role - I noticed Blastermaster being reasonable, and Millet who needed information (although I thought she’d guessed).

Now my notes are too long to post easily, but in summary of major points:
Now against blastermaster I have[ul]
[li]Voted percypercy Day One[/li][li]Voted projammer day 3 getting fluiddruid off[/li][li]Thought I was recuited[/li][/ul]
In his favour
[li] was nearly lynched instead of Rachm. As the mafia knew I wouldn’t drop the case against them, it makes little sense at this late stage to try and get a different mafia lynched.[/li]
Against you I have:
[ul]
[li]worked with Lemur866 to try to convince the town to lynch the doctor if they claimed.[/li][li]Voted against Rachm Qoch being lynched yesterday.[/li][li]Voted Blastermaster with Rachm.[/li][li]Misrepresented an Idle-tirial-Diggit exchange that never happened.[/li][li]coin toss comment.[/li][/ul]
Pointers:
If the Lemur866 vote was a setup, then you just added another pointer to yourself.
If the analysis of my list and Idle’s post I posted earlier was correct, you and possbliy Blastermaster come off as somewhat scummy.

My current scum suspects are

  1. Diggit
  2. Blastermaster

So I have voted for my number one suspect.

2249

[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
I’m not going to bother defending myself to you anymore,…
[/QUOTE]
Ohhh, there’s where the confusion lies – I’m not asking you to defend yourself, I’m asking help build your own scaffolding.

I mean if I was in your position, and I said something like “The sentence after you accuse me, you contradict yourself”, well, I guess I wouldn’t be happy about being called on it either. 'Cause really, it should be such a simple thing – a contradiction is pretty black and white – either I contradicted myself or I didn’t. Hell, it’s certainly no secret that I’m good for making a few mistakes in these games, so for the sake of argument let’s say I did contradict myself. All I’m asking for here is for you to point out where I did so…

2250

[QUOTE=tirial]
Not really - I think rachm wasn’t expecting so many people to agree, but once they did changing his vote would be suicide.

However if it was, then as Millet says it would get “Rachm off the hook (this worked on me), and possibly also Diggit, nesta and tirial”. Oh look. Your name is there, Blastermaster’s isn’t.

[/quote]

… and in the next comment I called her on it, and in the next comment she corrected that…

Why do you think I bolded the part I did? Before that night, your top two suspects were, apparently, zuma and Idle Thoughts. And I wasn’t questioning the origin of your suspicions about me. I was questioning the moment where you started suspecting me. Because you used it to justify your role-non-disclosure.

I have asked you before, and I’ll ask you again: how would you have reacted in the position of a townie not only spotting the Doctor because of one of her posts but also catching a double no-kill-night?

The second point… it’s true. I didn’t catch Rachm’s scumminess. And I’m not the only one who didn’t.

The third one. Look. I conflated in my mind two separate conversations. I make mistakes. I’m sure you make them too.

The last one. Look. I make mistakes. I’m sure you make them too. What kind of strategy would that “coin toss comment” make, anyhow? Try to confuse **Gadarene ** so he did what… exactly? Since this is a game, I was trying to prevent an apparent mistake on the side of the ref.

2251

This needs a bump. We have about 32 hours to go–any new votes?

2252

Yeah, gotta get this moving again. Just to bring us up to date, the (unofficial) vote count stands at:

2 – Blaster Master (Hal Briston, Millit the Frail)
1 – DiggitCamara (tirial)

2253

Well, I didn’t want to vote this early, already, but it seems we won’t get much participation out of nesta, for now.

So, maybe this will stir things up again a bit. I’ll vote for Blaster Master. Hal’s reasoning resonates quite a bit with mine (I had been putting him on my suspicious people list for a couple of days now, after all).

2254

It’s been awhile since I’ve checked how we handle it – four votes would end the day, after a grace period of some sort, right?

2255

Yup. Of eight hours, I believe. Something y’all haven’t come within shouting distance of all game. :slight_smile:

2256

Never mind, found it…after four votes, the target gets a 12-hour defense period. If still the leader at that time, then they’re lynched.

2257

Bwuh? Eight? My rule sheet printout says 12.

2258

[QUOTE=Hal Briston]
Bwuh? Eight? My rule sheet printout says 12.
[/QUOTE]

He probably saw how stubborn we are and decided we didn’t need 12 hours, since nothing was going to change our collective minds anyway. :stuck_out_tongue:

2259

'Eh, 12, 8, whichever…(on preview – heh, too true…of course, changing at least one mind is the main point of the rest of my post)… Anyway…

So, that’s three against Blaster, one against Diggit, with three votes left uncast.

Assuming that neither Diggit, Millet nor myself switch, that would mean that Blaster, Cookies and nesta would have to unanimously vote for Diggit in order to save Blaster.

It’s safe to say that Blaster would prefer the latter plan, meaning Cookies and nesta (both of whom have made known their suspicions of Diggit) would have to go along with with that to prevent Blaster’s lynching.

I’ll do all the digging I need to in order to try and find something that may convince one of you two (Cookies or nesta) of either Blaster’s guilt or Diggit’s innocence, but let me start by offering up this one – help with this, and if I’m wrong, I’ll personally walk headlong right into that noose tomorrow. No arguements, no fighting…I feel so strongly about this one, that I’ll happily lay my own neck on the line here.

2260

[QUOTE=Hal Briston]
I’ll do all the digging I need to in order to try and find something that may convince one of you two (Cookies or nesta) of either Blaster’s guilt or Diggit’s innocence, but let me start by offering up this one – help with this, and if I’m wrong, I’ll personally walk headlong right into that noose tomorrow. No arguements, no fighting…I feel so strongly about this one, that I’ll happily lay my own neck on the line here.
[/QUOTE]

That’s pretty bold. I don’t know that I’d be willing to go so far, but I can offer up my analysis of Blaster from a few days ago. Link

Since then, Blaster has:
–Not voted on the day of the SCL lynch
–Voted very late in the day yesterday, for** Rachm Qoch**.

Now, not voting is considered a shady thing to do, but on the other side, our repeat non-voting offender turned up town.

As for yesterday’s vote…we have so far established that scum will vote for scum sometimes, especially later in the game. Yesterday, if Blaster hadn’t voted for **Rachm **after his head had been called for, it would have been a really bad move for him. It might have been a “scared townie” thing, but it also might have been a “Mafia preservation” thing. I really forced him to get his decision in under the wire, no?

Let’s look at yesterday. I was in an un-enviable position, not feeling the scum vibe from any of the candidates but being kind of a crucial voter. I decided to take the hard road and vote for Blaster because I felt more strongly about him than Cookies. I also didn’t see the kind of support for a Cookies switch that I did for a Blaster switch. (For the record, I’m not feeling the scum vibe from Cookies any more.) Also for the record, I now feel like I made a very smart move, though at the time it felt really damn risky and kind of stupid.

The vote count was:
3 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial)
1 - Diggit (nesta)
2 - tirial (Diggit, Rachm)
I had voted/unvoted tirial. Only Blaster had yet to make a single vote.

I had heard I could possibly count on Hal or nesta to switch votes to Blaster, or Diggit to Cookies. I figured I could probably get Rachm to vote for anyone who might have a chance of taking his place. (This was before I knew he was Mafia, of course.) That would have been 4 of us, enough to seal the deal. Three, however, would not. it was a long shot, as Blaster would probably also vote for anyone who seriously opposed him. If either Blaster or Rachm was Mafia, I figured, they would certainly vote for the other, even if they were both Mafia. (Perhaps especially if they were both Mafia.*) A head-to-head between them could really teach us something. I voted Blaster in Post 2143.

The progression:

3 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial)
1 - Diggit (nesta)
2 - tirial (Diggit, Rachm)
1 - Blaster (Millit)
had not voted - Blaster

Post 2149 - Diggit doesn’t think he can get tirial to the guillotine, so…
3 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial)
1 - Diggit (nesta)
1 - tirial (Rachm)
2 - Blaster (Millit, Diggit)
had not voted - Blaster

That surprised me, because I didn’t see **Diggit **switching ahead of time. It probably surprised Blaster too. Before this crucial vote, he likely didn’t think he had a shot at being lynched.

Blaster does say he had internet trouble. Fair enough, I won’t accuse anyone of using that as a ploy–that would be waaaaay filthy.
4 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial, Blaster)
1 - Diggit (nesta)
1 - tirial (Rachm)
2 - Blaster (Millit, Diggit)

Post 2160 - Rachm gives no explanation whatsoever–there are only four words in this post. His last, and he pretty much knows it. It’s deadline.
4 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial, Blaster)
1 - Diggit (nesta)
3 - Blaster (Millit, Diggit, Rachm)

It really looks like scum voting for scum to try to throw us off. Back to the point with the (*): If either of them were on the line but didn’t vote the other, it would look like an attempted save. And who else would they vote for?

If they piled on Diggit, who had one vote, they might be able to lynch him. However, if they knew Diggit would turn up town, it would look really bad…and I now think they both knew that he would.

Blaster wouldn’t want to vote tirial–that whole situation was very messy, and we were all of mixed minds about the underlying motives of anyone casting stones at our doctor-possibly-turned-Mafia. And Rachm got his vote off of** tirial **very quickly. Trying to make a save play at the last minute? Nah, blowing a bunch of smoke, trying to have the last word.

And if either of them tried to make a case for someone else altogether, so late in the day, well… 1) I already did that. Too late. 2) It looks really, really scummy. And neither of them knew which one would be lynched…but they knew one of them would be, so they couldn’t afford to leave the other one hanging with a last-minute vote that was both in league with a Mafia and for someone who didnt look scummy to anyone else.

**Blaster and Rachm **both knew a Mafia was going to die late yesterday. The votes are there. Read them and weep!