[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
Ah but you said you were having fun, and that opens up the possibility that you’d want to extend that fun as long as possible, which could provide enough motivation to prolong our tortu…I mean, “entertainment”. 
[/QUOTE]
… c’mon. I’m not the cat lover around here…
I guess since you say you are a mason Diggit that you probably are. Hal’s defense of you makes no sense otherwise now that we know he was a mason.
I’m trying to figure out a reason why you might have taken out your fellow masons, and as you point out there isn’t a compelling one. Why give yourself a chance to lose if you had a guaranteed win by sticking with the masons. All I can come up with is that if you were recruited and decided to go for a mafia only win you would have to take them out at night since you couldn’t turn on them during the day. My problem with this is that I think the rules made it clear that your primary loyalty would stay with the masons if recruited, meaning that you should have been going for a mason win if possible, and it would have been. Of course, I’m not sure how Gadarene would enforce this if you did decide to switch your loyalty, or even if she would (I could be wrong about the rules), since enforcing it would have ended the game if it was done in any public way. I’m not sure if you would do this. I don’t really know you or how you would play if recruited, but I’m having a hard time thinking that it would have played out this way had you been.
Now, if by some chance you aren’t really a mason, Hal is really kicking himself over in the forbidden thread. That would be a fun read when this is all over.
I know that makes it sound like I’m accusing Cookies by saying I’m having a hard time seeing how the only other choice could be the recruit, but really, I’m not sure about her either. I don’t want to make a mistake here and just blindly vote for her only to have Diggit jump on and find out I’ve been used as a pawn in Diggit’s master plan. This warrants a lot more thought.
Cookies, I do have a question for you. Yesterday when you voted for Diggit to tie it up, did you think Diggit was more likely to be scum than tirial? The reason I ask is because up until the extension I thought the rules established in this game were that a tie went to random.org. The extension seems to be a little controversial now, and I can kind of see why, but it did give a chance for further discussion which might help today. Did you think the extension would happen or did you force the tie thinking it would be a coin-flip between tirial and Diggit?
male cough
When I tied it up, I was thinking that it would extend the deadline, and I was hoping to get the chance for more discussion from everyone. I didn’t realize how the rules of this particular game were stippulated for a tie, and I chalk that up to my crappy memory plus reading/playing too much Mafia in the past few months.
As for who I suspected more, I really wasn’t confident enough in any direction at that point, which was why I decided to vote for a tie. I assumed that Hal’s availability issue had also weighed into Gad’s extension once it was announced.
Oddly enough, even if I had been correctly remembering the rules about a random tie-breaker, I probably would’ve still decided to force a tie. 50/50 was more attractive than having to make that decision myself.
I certainly didn’t anticipate any controversy.
[QUOTE=nesta]
I guess since you say you are a mason Diggit that you probably are. Hal’s defense of you makes no sense otherwise now that we know he was a mason.
(snip)
[/QUOTE]
Don’t forget Millit’s defense of me. At that time she piled high praise on me and I actually had to tell her not to trust me. Which, if you read it whilst knowing I’m a mason rather reads like a warning not to blow our cover.
And concerning the possibility of my recruitment, look at it like this: a recruited mason wins both when scum wins and when masons win.
Which means he would have to maximize the chances of one of both groups winning. I would have had the perfect chance to maximize the mason’s chances to win, simply by not killing masons (and remember: Millit died after Blaster Master was lynched. So I wouldn’t even have to worry about other scum’s opinions about the matter).
All this leaves me with a dilemma: I’m the only player who doesn’t know who was recruited…
To anyone who has been expecting a new post round here: my apologies.
I have been riveted by this game.
And, while I’m at it, I’d like to refer you to this post. 
Ok, then. Let’s get this moving again. I was hoping one or the other of the remaining two players would post, giving me a bit more of a hold, but I guess they’d rather wait for my move.
I’ve been looking at several angles of the situation. First I tried to find out if there was some way to find out why Millit was chosen as the first kill of the Recruit. No dice. And, as far as I know, the Recruit might very well have spotted the post in which tirial slipped(?) and pointed out Millit, **Blaster Master ** and pals might have known before that she was a mason or a number of other reasons.
Hal, of course, was relatively easy to spot as a mason once Millit had been killed so I didn’t even start that line of investigation.
I tried to put myself in Blaster Master’s position concerning recruitment options and I can see reasons to recruit both of them. However, I guess at the time nesta would have a slight edge, since he’d been “cleared” by Hal and his “trap”.
I tried to find some kind of variation in their respective posting styles, and/or voting tendencies. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (CTTDSWHC) has been consistent and insistent on her votes against me (to the point of voting against me toDay). She seemed to have "imprinted " on tirial during the day we lynched Rachm.
And, like I said yesterday, I simply can’t see how her tying vote would have benefitted her position (if she were scum).
nesta’s position pre and post-Recruitment has been mostly consistent as well. While we were deciding whom to lynch (between Blaster Master and Rachm) he said :
though at the end of that day, he was more convinced I was scum.
There are, however, two posts during the day we lynched Blaster Master that seem to be carefully worded defenses for Blaster Master:
The first one, of course is… oddly reminiscent of Lemur866’s careful defense of fluiddruid on Day 3:
(which, by the way, led me to vote for Lemur866)
Now, during the next Day (yesterDay) nesta was leaning towards voting tirial
but suddenly reversed course with a vote against CTTDSWHC
after finding himself on Hal’s menu :
My guess is nesta knew Hal was a mason (he thought Hal was unreasonable in my defense unless we were on the same team) and was preparing his ground for today.
My apologies for this convoluted post, but I still had to explain my reasoning to vote nesta
I’m here. Busy and sad, but here. The doctors have confirmed that my friend has permanent damage to his C1 and C2 vertebrae and brain stem. At this point a best-case-scenario would be similar to how Christopher Reeve lived after his neck injury. I don’t want to even think about the other scenarios.
But back to the neglected game…
I’ve pointed out the possibility that nesta’s posting style and frequency would make him a good recruiting candidate. I’ve pointed it out, pointed other possibilities out, voted contrary to that possibility, tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, and now find myself at the crossroads of no-return.
It would take an extremely compelling argument from nesta to discredit Diggit enough for me to vote for Diggit again. I’m going to stop holding my breath for one.
Vote nesta
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
I’m here. Busy and sad, but here. The doctors have confirmed that my friend has permanent damage to his C1 and C2 vertebrae and brain stem. At this point a best-case-scenario would be similar to how Christopher Reeve lived after his neck injury. I don’t want to even think about the other scenarios.
But back to the neglected game…
I’ve pointed out the possibility that nesta’s posting style and frequency would make him a good recruiting candidate. I’ve pointed it out, pointed other possibilities out, voted contrary to that possibility, tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, and now find myself at the crossroads of no-return.
It would take an extremely compelling argument from nesta to discredit Diggit enough for me to vote for Diggit again. I’m going to stop holding my breath for one.
Vote nesta
[/QUOTE]
(color removed)
Well, the way I see it, nesta is at a crossroad:
So far, he seems to have prepared the ground for option 1
So is there a countdown now? Are we done, for better or worse? Is there pie? Nachos?
On preview I see you’ve both posted since I saw Diggit’s vote. For what it’s worth, I haven’t read either of your posts since his vote, so if it seems I’m ignoring something it’s because I haven’t seen it. I don’t think I’ll have time for another reply until tonight.
–
You’re wrong Diggit. If you weren’t recruited, and I’ve been thinking it’s unlikely that you were due to the masons being killed, we both lose if you keep your vote on me.
I don’t have time for a very detailed defense right now, but I’ll do what I can.
I did think you were more likely to be scum than Blaster Master on the day he was lynched, right up until I cast my vote. What made me finally vote for him was that Hal was so sure, and also the early bandwagon attempt by tirial and Cookies early that day. The posts you think were defending Blaster Master were really just me thinking out loud. At the point I made those posts there were only a few hours left in the day and I still hadn’t made up my mind, so I was hoping to hear back from Hal to gauge if he was the recruit and pushing through a lynch to save you. I didn’t realize he was out of town and not able to respond fully, which led to the second post where I voted. I thought there was a good chance I would come back later that night and find out that I had put the nail in a townie’s coffin and made it extremely difficult for us to win. Plus, if I was the recruit why would I be defending Blaster Master with so little time left and 3 of the 4 votes needed to lynch him already cast, and then defend him in the same post that I cast the final vote for him?
I did think you and Hal were masons yesterday due to his defense of you when I didn’t see any reason why. Millit was a surprise to me because my read of her had been thin all game. With Millit a mason and killed I thought the odds were very high that neither your nor Hal was the recruit, which left tirial and Cookies. tirial seemed more scummy overall to me which is why she was at the front of the list I posted. She didn’t make sense as the recruit if it happened on the last no-kill night, though. I decided that it was more likely the recruit happened later rather than earlier, which made me think Cookies was more likely to be the recruit. I posted that yesterday to see if anyone agreed with me, and I guess they didn’t. Now it seems I was probably right.
Please go back and look at what Cookies has done since the no-kill night. She tried to get a bandwagon against you started on the day Blaster Master was lynched, and then didn’t vote at all, just like Blaster Master didn’t. Yesterday she was all for a tirial lynch, until she tied it up with you as the other possible lynchee. She says she thought the day would be extended, but I see no reason why she would think this. When I asked her about it she said she was confused, but then says she would have tied it anyway so she wouldn’t have to make a choice. I think she would have been happy with either of you lynched, since I think she knew you were both town anyway. I don’t know why you don’t find tying up the vote right before the deadline scummy. I certainly do.
I’ve been hoping to find some time to go back through Hal’s and Millit’s posts just to decide once and for all if I trust your mason claim before I put my trust in you as the deciding vote. I was 99% sure of you anyway, and I guess I’m out of time now that the countdown could start any minute.
Vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies.
Sorry if this post is incoherent. I was interrupted over and over. I hope to have some time tonight, so I’ll post more then.
One more quick post.
Sorry to hear about your friend Cookies.
Thanks. I appreciate everyone’s support and allowing me to vent.
[QUOTE=nesta]
You’re wrong Diggit. If you weren’t recruited, and I’ve been thinking it’s unlikely that you were due to the masons being killed, we both lose if you keep your vote on me.
(snip)
Please go back and look at what Cookies has done since the no-kill night. She tried to get a bandwagon against you started on the day Blaster Master was lynched, and then didn’t vote at all, just like Blaster Master didn’t. Yesterday she was all for a tirial lynch, until she tied it up with you as the other possible lynchee. She says she thought the day would be extended, but I see no reason why she would think this. When I asked her about it she said she was confused, but then says she would have tied it anyway so she wouldn’t have to make a choice. I think she would have been happy with either of you lynched, since I think she knew you were both town anyway. I don’t know why you don’t find tying up the vote right before the deadline scummy. I certainly do.
I’ve been hoping to find some time to go back through Hal’s and Millit’s posts just to decide once and for all if I trust your mason claim before I put my trust in you as the deciding vote. I was 99% sure of you anyway, and I guess I’m out of time now that the countdown could start any minute.
(snip)
[/QUOTE]
The problem is, I haven’t got a clear read on one of you two.
I welcome any and all feedback concerning ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies scumminess… but I can’t really see anything.
Yeah, I saw her attempt at starting a bandwagon against me. Right after Rachm’s lynch. But not only didn’t it catch, but she backed down from it. And tirial continually tried to lynch me, so it isn’t exactly a clear indication of Recruithood, is it? Yes, she didn’t vote against Blaster Master… but your vote only came after she indicated she had 75% (or something to that effect) confidence in his scumminess. And then with a show of extreme reluctance. The thing reads (to me) like a last ditch effort to lower someone’s confidence in his vote (Hal, perhaps). And she didn’t vote for him (in time) because she went to see some movie… like she said, I’m guessing she’s telling the truth when Real Life intruded into the game.
Your “thinking out loud” reminds me too much of Lemur866’s tepid attempt to save fluiddruid as well. And I don’t see any attempt on ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies to defend Blaster Master during that day.
I for one, don’t want to shorten this day too much. I need input, anything any of you have to strengthen your case.
Like I said: Of the three I’m the only one who doesn’t know who has been recruited…
[real life]I’m very sorry to hear about your friend. I hope he recovers soon.[/real life]
[QUOTE=nesta]
(snip)
Please go back and look at what Cookies has done since the no-kill night. She tried to get a bandwagon against you started on the day Blaster Master was lynched, and then didn’t vote at all, just like Blaster Master didn’t. Yesterday she was all for a tirial lynch, until she tied it up with you as the other possible lynchee. She says she thought the day would be extended, but I see no reason why she would think this. When I asked her about it she said she was confused, but then says she would have tied it anyway so she wouldn’t have to make a choice. I think she would have been happy with either of you lynched, since I think she knew you were both town anyway. I don’t know why you don’t find tying up the vote right before the deadline scummy. I certainly do.
(snip)
[/QUOTE]
(Bolding mine)
That’s the thing. I don’t see any advantage in that behavior to scum. Cookies had several options open to her:
Now: A vote for me would tie the vote. According to previous rulings, that would have resulted in a decision by random.org. And… my death or tirial’s death.
If tirial had been lynched anyhow, she would have to face a reataliatory vote by me… What for? Voting for you would have been a simple OMGUS vote, and thus easily defensible.
And I can see an actual advantage to voting for tirial (for scum, that is). Imagine, for instance, that she had been in my place. Imagine that during this day tirial wasn’t lynched but that the other citizen was. Which would leave the Doctor and scum going into the night… Guess who would be self-protecting that night?
Next positive point (for Cookies, that is). Right off the bat she said I was a mason. Since yesterday I have been pointing out (as have you) that a recruited mason was out of the question because Millit had been killed (that point has been reinforced via Hal’s death). So: why would the Recruit right off the bat announce that I was the mason? Wouldn’t the Recruit have been better off if the mason remained unidentified? And, if for some obscure reason the Mason was announced by the Recruit, why would she then vote against him?
In Game 4, there was at least one tie with an extension, and further discussion about rules clarification about ties and extension times. I haven’t followed the game very closely since subbing out, so there might be more. I don’t think I’m supposed to ink to another message board, but I can PM you a link to the rules discussion I’m referring to.
I’ve tried to find how NAF handled ties in Game 2, but short of reading through the whole Game 2 thread, it is doubtful I’d find it. It isn’t stipulated in his rule posts on pages 2 or 4 of his thread, but it must be covered somewhere. Hell if I can remember exactly how he handled them.
[QUOTE=Werewolf (Game 1) Rules]
There’s 21 players in the game. At the point at which one player has recieved 8 votes, I’ll announce it and start a 24 hour countdown to Night. You’re free to change your minds during that time, but the player with most votes at the end of that time will be lynched (unless it’s a tie, in which case i’ll choose one of the two at random). If no-one recieves 8 votes, the Day Stage will end at one week from the start (so this Day stage’s maximum time limit is next Friday).
[/QUOTE]
So, considering that I was tired because it was quite late on the night when I was trying to figure out what to do prior to deciding to force a tie, and considering that there is at least one precedent for an extension due to a tie, and rules involving extensions for all sorts of other voting situations, and considering I’ve played in or observed all current and past games that were played with SDMB members, I think there is plenty to indicate reasonable doubt as to having scummy motives vs being confused in my decision to tie.
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
(Bolding mine)
That’s the thing. I don’t see any advantage in that behavior to scum. Cookies had several options open to her:
If tirial had been lynched anyhow, she would have to face a reataliatory vote by me… What for? Voting for you would have been a simple OMGUS vote, and thus easily defensible.
[/quote]
Well, a lot of my initial reasoning for why she tied it up was based on her doing it to get you possibly lynched. I thought she was scum yesterday, and a lot of my theories about why she did that were based on my initial reading when I saw she’d tied it up. Now that I re-read the post where she voted for you, and her recent posts clarifying that she did think there would be an extension, I believe she really did think the extension was a given.
Even then, though, I think she had to vote for someone. I had called her out as scum yesterday because she hadn’t voted the day before. If she voted for tirial at that point she was probably afraid that it would point back to her today. I’m not sure why she didn’t vote for me. I think if she thought there would be an extension she would come off as town for causing it since keeping the clock going as long as possible is usually a pro-town move, and that’s exactly what is happening. Since my vote was resoundingly ignored she wasn’t in any danger yesterday, especially if she gained a little trust for causing the extension.
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
And I can see an actual advantage to voting for tirial (for scum, that is). Imagine, for instance, that she had been in my place. Imagine that during this day tirial wasn’t lynched but that the other citizen was. Which would leave the Doctor and scum going into the night… Guess who would be self-protecting that night?
[/quote]
Good point. I hadn’t considered the situation if only her and tirial were left at the end of today. If I recall the rules correctly it would have gone to a coin-flip on the tie. If she thought the extension was a given she was probably counting on the tirial lynch going through in the end anyway.
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Next positive point (for Cookies, that is). Right off the bat she said I was a mason. Since yesterday I have been pointing out (as have you) that a recruited mason was out of the question because Millit had been killed (that point has been reinforced via Hal’s death). So: why would the Recruit right off the bat announce that I was the mason? Wouldn’t the Recruit have been better off if the mason remained unidentified? And, if for some obscure reason the Mason was announced by the Recruit, why would she then vote against him?
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]
I’m vanilla town. I’ve inadvertantly outed myself as such on so many occasions, I can’t even count them, so I’d be highly surpised if that is a surprise to anyone. So surprised that I didn’t even think to role-claim in my last post. Of course some (if not all) of those sloppy moments (including not role-claiming earlier today) are likely to be seen as (or twisted into) crafty scum manipulations, but sadly they were just vanilla sloppiness.
[/quote]
She thought it was obvious she wasn’t a mason so there was no value in trying to keep your status a secret. I was pretty sure you were a mason (if there were three) due to Hal’s defense of you, but I wasn’t sure. I wouldn’t have believed her if you both claimed mason, though, and maybe she figured that. If she was about to vote for you anyway, she might have thought that our common non-mason status, and previous shared suspicion of you, would unite us against you and lead to victory. It’s hard to figure out what she was thinking. Maybe she was hoping that I would jump right on so she could unvote you and say it was a trap and get you to vote for me. Who knows.
All I know is that there must be a scum reason to her strange actions these last few days. There’s no way for me to prove it short of us losing the game and my town status be revealed, but I know she’s scum (I hope, or there’s no chance at winning) because I’m not. This is the first time since I was wrong about Projammer that I’m pretty sure I’m right. Too bad it took a 50/50 where it’s easy to rule one of the options out for me to be sure.
It’s getting late and I worry that if I don’t post this now you might miss it before the countdown expires, so I’ll post this much now. If your mind is made up I guess you can leave your vote on me and that’s it. Please read her posts again and look at how strange her actions have been. She was recruited.
Gadarene, I’m assuming the countdown is 12 hours because that’s what it’s been in the past I think. Can you clarify this when you get a chance?
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
but your vote only came after she indicated she had 75% (or something to that effect) confidence in his scumminess. And then with a show of extreme reluctance. The thing reads (to me) like a last ditch effort to lower someone’s confidence in his vote (Hal, perhaps). And she didn’t vote for him (in time) because she went to see some movie… like she said, I’m guessing she’s telling the truth when Real Life intruded into the game.
Your “thinking out loud” reminds me too much of Lemur866’s tepid attempt to save fluiddruid as well. And I don’t see any attempt on ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies to defend Blaster Master during that day.
[/QUOTE]
I know you think you see a scum tell in my indecisiveness about Blaster Master, but I know they aren’t scum tells because I’m not scum. How can I explain away your feeling that my posts were like Lemur866’s? I was asking for Hal’s response to see if he was recruited, since he seemed an obvious recruit to me at the time. I was hoping he had a solid reason for trusting you so that I could rule him out a little and feel good about voting for Blaster Master.
I don’t even remember Cookies saying she had a 75% confidence in Blaster Master’s scumminess. I was reluctant to just vote for you and let Blaster Master get lynched without my vote because I had to leave and was worried they might pile on at the last minute and get you lynched if you really weren’t scum.
I guess that’s it. If you leave your vote on me it’s over and we lose. Really, I blame myself for not playing a very good game this time around, so don’t feel bad. If I had just found some scum during the game the mafia would have killed me and someone better at this could have been one of the final three, or gotten the recruit lynched yesterday, and we would have had a chance. Sorry.
[Quote=nesta]
I don’t even remember Cookies saying she had a 75% confidence in Blaster Master’s scumminess.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=nesta]
If you leave your vote on me it’s over and we lose.
[/quote]
Now where have I heard an “honest scum” statement like this before? Somewhere near the bottom of page 46, methinks…
Now this particular use of “we” has a different ring to it, but even so, a significant chunk of the paragraph has definite (though a bit lacking in the self-esteem department) double-meaning potential.
Don’t be so hard on yourself. You didn’t ask to be recruited.
I forgot one. If you’ll indulge me in my own low self-esteem moment…
I think the (town) reason your looking for is consistently inconsistent cluelessness. 