Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler

[dnooman]

@Lightnin'

But you see, that’s what’s so irritating about all of this. I’ve tried, repeatedly, to explain my actions. Every time, someone else sees it as “being defensive”, and says that it makes me look suspicious. And once someone sees you as suspicious, that just leads someone else to see you as suspicious.

The logical thing to do, then, would be just shut up- but, as someone else said, “silence is suspicious.”

So I can’t defend myself, and I can’t NOT defend myself. I can’t accuse anyone else, should new evidence appear. I can’t defend anyone else if I think they’re innocent. There’s not a damn thing I can do. Heck, even just trying to make small talk just to show that I’m paying attention can make me look guilty. shrug

This is all I can do, as near as I can tell-

I’m not one of 'em. I’m exactly as I am trying to portray myself as. The ones you should look out for, at least from my point of view, are the ones who keep maintaining my guilt either through “me toos” or through silence.

I’m not entirely certain I’m enjoying this game. :rolleyes:

Ok, first of all acting suspicious does not always equal being scum, but it does create suspicion which is all we have to go on at this point.

Let me tell you about the one and only game I played on mafiascum.net. There were only 7 people in the game (which sucked incredibly), I was the cop. There were 2 mafia, me the cop, a doctor, and three townies. Day one I threw out a “lurker vote” just to get things started. The guy was only away from the game for about a day (24 hours) and one of the other players really sunk his teeth into me. Everything I said in my defense he questioned, and I was telling the truth. That was quite frustrating.

Day one we lynched a townie, worst part about that was it was my vote that decided it. Night one they killed the Doc, and I investigated the guy that had been riding me. Turned out he was scum. With two of us down already we were at “lynch or lose” meaning if we didn’t kill a mafia that day town would lose. So, I had to role claim and reveal that I had found a scum. Much posting ensued and I started really not having fun in the game, it sucked being called a liar when I wasn’t and it sucked that I couldn’t convince the town that I had in fact found a scum, and that I was in fact a Cop.

Long story short, my appeals to emotion and frustration led one of the townies to decide to lynch me and we lost. So believe me, if you’re town I know exactly how you feel. I have an obligation to vote for the person that I feel is most likely mafia, or is at least generating the most suspicion. IMO, you have done the latter.

Remember if town wins and you’re dead, you still win. If you are town, don’t be worried about getting lynched. Be worried that if you are killed or lynched that your posts might not provide us with insight. Clear the slate, reread the thread and post some insight. It’s the best thing you can do right now. Don’t focus too much on defending yourself if it doesn’t seem to be working. You will regain trust much faster by helping us find the mafia than you will by just proclaiming your innocence.

Heh, funny thing…guess what my player name was in that mafia game.

Whitelightning. I’m serious, you can even look it up.

[Kyrie_Eleison]

@Omi no Kami

If he was a townie, at least until late midgame and early endgame the masons are his friends.

You assume that, but I submit that if Projammer were a mason, he would currently be working against the town’s best interest:

@Projammer

I would imagine the mason strategy would be to try to identify the roles of non-masons and then attempt to manipulate the vote to reduce the townies and mafia at about the same rate until they outnumbered the remaining townies and then focus on mafia.

I have no reason to believe that he is a mason, but nonetheless, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to point out to the masons that they win if the town does, and that they don’t have to shoot for the mason-only win. Even you seem somewhat confused on that point:

(I GUESS. I admit to not having seen this particular rule set before, where the masons are apparently set to lose if townwins.)

The masons don’t lose if the town wins. They only stand to exclude the remainder of the town from also winning if they outnumber them when the mob is eliminated.

Kyrie, on the other hand, seems to want suspicion taken off himself as soon as possible. This could mean that he’s either a) scum who got hit with the corner of the spotlight and really wants to get back out of it or b) a nervous townie who doesn’t want to get randomly lynched on the first day.

Maybe it’s because I’m a noob, but it’s neither of those two. I know that I am town; I would prefer to see the town lynch scum. I feel like I have an obligation to try to turn the town’s attention away from me so that that can happen. I realize I can die and still win with the town.

[DiggitCamara]

@Kyrie Eleison

Maybe it’s because I’m a noob, but it’s neither of those two. I know that I am town; I would prefer to see the town lynch scum. I feel like I have an obligation to try to turn the town’s attention away from me so that that can happen. I realize I can die and still win with the town.

Good job! Now go and tell Lightnin’ that, so he can enjoy the game.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@fluiddruid

Well, Idle Thoughts, I’m glad you finally laid it out on the table. I had noticed you kept posting your suspicion of me, but had very little about why.

What does this mean?

I just means that I have many reasons (I think) to be suspicious of you, but haven’t voted for you yet beause some reasons aren’t game/behavior/post based. I hesitate on letting those reasons be factors at all.

Considering and rejecting a point is bad? This was in response to someone else posting about it, and I reinforced that it was a bad idea.

Not in itself but saying you were contemplating that does give me a suspicion vibe (as did all the others who said they were thinking of doing that). And as I said before, how great would it be to use the excuse “Maybe we should have a no lynching day in case we accidently vote out a citizen” if one was scum? Pretty genius, I’d think. Like one was trying to throw people off yet, at the same time, hope most might read it and agree and thus give up their chance to get a mafia member.

Again, I know you weren’t agreeing with it and you were saying you didn’t think it was wise anymore, but just the one line saying that you were, at first, considering it is what caught my eye. Like planting the little seed in the minds of others. That made me only a little suspicious of you, however.

@Idle Thoughts

Third, most of her posts in here haven’t been all out accustory or strong. They seem to be little and small, like she’s taking pains to remain careful and walking on eggshells.

I’m a little curious as to where this is coming from, frankly, as I’ve had suspicions thrown at me several times for being too aggressive and too accusatory.

Haha, maybe I’m more of an aggressive player than you in that case because mostly the posts I’ve been seeing from you have been vague and saying things that could go either this way or that (not really making up your mind and trying to go both ways on things).
For example, here you say that you’re supicious of DiggitCamara, but also NAF.
Here you unvote NAF after coming up on some players radars and you state he’s either a townie or scum.
Here you list two players who have voted randomly, when really, that’s what the first round is. It’s just random votes (well, if one is a citizen). And yeah, some people use small kinks here and there that they see to make their choice for them and some actually let something take the decision out of their hands or just goes with anyone cause they really have no idea who to vote for. Seems to me just waiting for someone to slip up during the first round does nothing cause everyone is already so suspicious of everyone else. It’s of my opinion, then, that random (be it with any reason you may have or no reason) is the way to go if one is really on the good side. You seem to go against that in your post there and place suspicion on others for it.

I don’t know about anyone else but to me you just seem like you can’t really make up your mind so you say what something or someone could be in both cases, like you’re trying not to really say anything concrete so you stay below the radar. And yeah, other people have done this too but the way you do it, just the way I feel when I read it tells me something is off.

Maybe it’s just me and this is your style of playing but it just rubs me the wrong way a little and gives me vibes that not all is as it seems.

I’ll quote myself in response from this post

You’re right. I misread the post and didn’t see the word “not”. I take back my point of that then and apoligize for mislabling you as an experienced player.

I don’t think the rest of the people in the game would agree that I’m keeping my thoughts a secret. As I’ve stated, Lightnin’ and Kyrie are my main contenders at this stage of the game. The only person next on my list, except for lurker reasons (which still concern me) is, frankly, you.

And this is a slight other reason. You say you’re suspicious of Kyrie and Lightnin’ here. Yet in all of the other posts I’ve linked to (above) you have placed suspicion on completely different people. Just seems you’ve been, again, changing your mind a lot and making it seem like you don’t want to really make a concrete decision. Maybe to avoid having the FOS pointed at you? Being too gung-ho on someone is a tell, I think. At least to me. So is being overly cautious.

I really think your post muddies the waters of my posting record in a way that just doesn’t ring true. I’m not going to say that you blantantly misrepresented me, but you did misrepresent me at the very least on the fourth point and I’d argue on every point except my voting record. Painting me as “walking on eggshells” and that I haven’t “been quick to share my thoughts” is demonstrably not the case.

Well, I apoligize then if I’m reading you wrong. But it’s just the vibes I’ve been getting reading your posts.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@fluiddruid

I will state unequivocally and for the record that no particular role was asked for nor given based on moderator status.

I am sure Gadarene will confirm this.

I never thought anything was asked for. All I was saying is, it seems to me to make sense to give someone who not only had a reserved spot but also a board status better chances to stay in the game if they showed interest in playing. If, in fact, he chose who gets what at his own discretion. If it’s random, though, well, that shoots my theory and suspicion to hell.

So add me to the list that’s awaiting clarification of team/role hand outs.

[dnooman]

I’ll be pretty surprised if Gadarene chose roles tailored to people specifically. Actually I’ll be shocked, because that would be a huge factor in determining how the game goes. I think Gadarene knows better than to do something like that.

[Omi_no_Kami]

@DiggitCamara

… these two posts ring my scum-o-meter.

CaerieD only has two (count them two! !) posts after daybreak!

Yes, but that’s still enough to notice the change in demeanor. I’m trying to pay attention to the players who post less, and she’s one of the few people who I’ve noticed a change in.

[Gadarene]

Hal Briston:

Gadarene – how did you assign roles? We’re they completely random, or did you pick and choose who became what?

I’m kinda surprised people are even asking this, but I guess it’s a fair question. Roles were chosen absolutely at random, using random.org. I listed everyone’s name and had them generated in a random order. First x players listed were citizens; next y players listed were scum; next z players listed were masons, et cetera.

And I can, of course, confirm that fluiddruid neither requested nor was given any sort of special role based on her moderator status. Nor was NAF given special treatment, other than a seat being saved for him because he’d PMed me about it specifically before the thread was started.

I’m happy to answer any other questions about the role selection process, but I think it’s fairly clearcut.

[Projammer]

Kyrie You’re overthinking my post. Someone had asked about what masons were likely to do and I just posted what I thought they might do in order to devise a win for themselves rather than the whole town.

And after catching up on posts, it’s appearing to me that Lightnin and NAF are way too antagonistic towards each other leading me to believe that one is likely mob and the other to be townie. Leaning more towards Lightnin due to the excesive defensiveness of his posts so…

unrandomvote Lemur
vote Lightnin

And should lightnin turn out to be townie, FOS NAL.

[Idle_Thoughts]

All right, then it appears both my non-game suspicions are unfounded. They won’t play any factors in how I vote and my suspicion of fluiddruid has slackened somewhat.

[Blaster_Master]

@Idle Thoughts

Well to me, NAF hasn’t set off any alarms. Similiar to what other’s have said about him, he seems to be really putting himself out there and playing hard. This doesn’t strike me as something a mafia member would do. I’m thinking back to the first Werewolf game that RT held and I seem to remember a rule was “Werewolves may talk and vote when it’s day but cannot lead the town in any overly way”. I’m assuming that’s a rule for the game usually.

And those two things alone don’t make NAF suspicious in my eyes. Like I had said, I was already suspicious of fluiddruid for four reasons and then thinking about the other, non-game facts, it made the seed of doubt grow.

So no, I don’t think NAF is scum. At least not yet. No vibes from him yet, however he could be fooling us both (and others) very easily. But combined with other suspicions, I do think fluiddruid gives off the impression one (or having a power role).

You’re absolutely right, and that’s what concerns me about the logic you’ve been using. NAF is pinging me the strongest town of anyone here, thus, if there was any truth to your logic and either fluiddruid or NAF are not mafia, you can say bye-bye to a power role. As expected, Gadarene, confirmed that not to be true.

You’ve aleved some of my suspicion, but not enough for me to unvote yet.

[SnakesCatLady]

I don’t have enough suspicions of anyone to vote yet. I guess I’ll just hang around, pet the cats, and hope someone trips up enough to give me some evidence.

[CaerieD]

@Omi no Kami

Undecided CaerieD. She seems to be much more agressive and confrontational in this game than the last one, and anything out of the ordinary is worth examining. Her suspicions seem well-founded, but she also changes them a lot. (I think she’s flip-flopped on fluid at least once or twice). It may be that she’s scum, and trying to confuse us by “helpfully” providing lots and lots of conflicting commentary in the hopes of hiding bad advice inside of good advice, or it may just be that she doesn’t feel the need to lay low like she did when she was the detective in our last round. Honestly, I think the latter is more likely, but I get the feeling that if we watch her for another day or two it’ll be much more obvious what the deal is.

I’ve made two posts since daybreak. In both of them, I expressed some mild suspicion of fluiddruid, though it was considerably milder the second time around. Considering that I got myself offed for making the Vigilante think I was scum last time around, I’m being far more cautious this time about what I post and what suspicions I air. No way am I going to repeat my strategy from last time, considering how it ended.

You’ve definitely come up on my scumdar now, though.

[Rachm_Qoch]

@CaerieD

@Omi no Kami

Undecided CaerieD. She seems to be much more agressive and confrontational in this game than the last one, and anything out of the ordinary is worth examining. Her suspicions seem well-founded, but she also changes them a lot. (I think she’s flip-flopped on fluid at least once or twice). It may be that she’s scum, and trying to confuse us by “helpfully” providing lots and lots of conflicting commentary in the hopes of hiding bad advice inside of good advice, or it may just be that she doesn’t feel the need to lay low like she did when she was the detective in our last round. Honestly, I think the latter is more likely, but I get the feeling that if we watch her for another day or two it’ll be much more obvious what the deal is.

I’ve made two posts since daybreak. In both of them, I expressed some mild suspicion of fluiddruid, though it was considerably milder the second time around. Considering that I got myself offed for making the Vigilante think I was scum last time around, I’m being far more cautious this time about what I post and what suspicions I air. No way am I going to repeat my strategy from last time, considering how it ended.

You’ve definitely come up on my scumdar now, though.

Me too.

Going back and reading the two posts in question, post #214 presented a qualified suspicion, and post #282 presented a further qualification of this suspicion.

Omi No Kami, you mischaracterize CaerieD’s posts.
You say you “think” she flip-flopped once or twice? In these two posts? How much flip-flopping can you do in two posts?
You say she’s too agressive and confrontational. Where? I don’t see it.
You say she’s providing lots and lots of conflicting commentary? In these two lonely posts? Where?

Scummy.
Vote Omi No Kami

[dnooman]

@Projammer

Kyrie You’re overthinking my post. Someone had asked about what masons were likely to do and I just posted what I thought they might do in order to devise a win for themselves rather than the whole town.

And after catching up on posts, it’s appearing to me that Lightnin and NAF are way too antagonistic towards each other leading me to believe that one is likely mob and the other to be townie. Leaning more towards Lightnin due to the excesive defensiveness of his posts so…

unrandomvote Lemur
vote Lightnin

And should lightnin turn out to be townie, FOS NAL.

This really pings my scumdar. You’ve targeted both of the people that are garnering the most attention, and you’ve posited that if one isn’t scum then the other is. Is it so unthinkable that two townies could be fighting? Townies don’t know who anyone else is, yet the Mafia are free to cause infighting because it can only benefit them.

I think you chose the two highest targets, and went with the highest vote getter for your “lean”. You seem to be swooping down on this situation, and you seem to be trying to manipulate it.

Huge FOS towards Projammer. I had a null opinion about you until now, you’re painting targets on peoples backs now.

I have several other suspicions, but I feel it best for those people to keep digging their own graves rather than let them know that they are acting inappropriately.

[tirial]

Well I currently feel like Hal Briston - post 383

play suspicions close to the vest, or point out every word someone says that tweaks you the wrong way?

I have got a few ideas about who is town, but I’m not going to bring them up now, as there isn’t enough to go on to be sure. I still think Idle Thoughts should have stayed under the radar early on, rather than waving past experience around and making himself a target before he could be really useful.

Percypercy hasn’t said much recently. However DiggitCamera could you clarify post 370

And, finally, percypercy has been almost completely absent from this thread, and for that reason alone I’ll unvote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies and vote percypercy

Is that because you suspect lurkers and think he’s scum, or as a prod to get him to post more?

[Omi_no_Kami]

@Rachm Qoch

Me too.

Going back and reading the two posts in question, post #214 presented a qualified suspicion, and post #282 presented a further qualification of this suspicion.

Omi No Kami, you mischaracterize CaerieD’s posts.
You say you “think” she flip-flopped once or twice? In these two posts? How much flip-flopping can you do in two posts?
You say she’s too agressive and confrontational. Where? I don’t see it.
You say she’s providing lots and lots of conflicting commentary? In these two lonely posts? Where?

Scummy.
Vote Omi No Kami

Gah, this is going completely wrong. I’ll admit that I didn’t read CaerieD’s posts carefully before making an accusation, which is wrong no matter what you say. But I concede the flip-flopping bit, I think you’ll agree that the sum of my argument was “CaerieD seems to be acting differently this time. Huh, that’s strange. Let’s keep an eye on her”. And I stand by that. ^^

[Omi_no_Kami]

Oops, that should’ve read “But IF I concede…”

And I have to say, FOSes by the two people I’m currently most suspicious of don’t hold a lot of water with me.

I want to welcome accusations though; it’s early on, and careful scrutiny of everything that everyone says is essential.

[Kyrie_Eleison]

@Omi no Kami

And I have to say, FOSes by the two people I’m currently most suspicious of don’t hold a lot of water with me.

Really? I don’t recall FOSing you in any way. Vote: Omi no Kami for being most suspicious of two people other than the one he is currently voting for. Get your story straight, bubba, or get lynched.

[Omi_no_Kami]

@Kyrie Eleison

Really? I don’t recall FOSing you in any way. Vote: Omi no Kami for being most suspicious of two people other than the one he is currently voting for. Get your story straight, bubba, or get lynched.

Last time I’m repeating this. I don’t have any good leads. Silence only helps the scum, so I’m stating my suspicions to see if anyone agrees.

Kyrie: strikes an odd chord with me in general. No better evidence than the mason thing I mentioned earlier.

CaerieD: not a suspect, but I’m watching her because her behavior is significantly different from the last game.

Disagree all you want, but I’m not letting you railroad me for having a different opinion than you do.

I think much more discussion on this topic is going to lead towards an obsession that isn’t helping anyone. Be as suspicious as you want, but don’t make up a reason to dislike me.

Hmm… now that I think about it, you are being awfully defensive. Ah well… off to find someone else who looks more suspicious than Kyrie, so I can stop taking his shit for being paranoid.