Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler

Having board trouble - 15 minutes to submit. Will post reasons when board stable.

Every one of current crop has a person I suspect in it - hence why it looks like town on town.

On preview - I agree with Omi No Kami. I will vote Blastermaster because he was part of the swings (with CaerieD) on Day One and Three but no one seems to have taken him up on it.
vote Blastermaster

Problem is I can guess how the two remaining voters are likely to vote and am fighting the urge to use my vote to force a tie.

Voting Blocks:

For a starting point on both Day One and Day Three Blastermaster voted late, gave reasons for his vote and CaerieD then changed vote to vote with him. Assuming this indicates a voting block, how could it be expanded?

On Day One, the swing this caused got Lightnin’ (U), Omi No Kami (U) and Projammer (T) out of danger of being lynched.
On Day Three the swing resulted in Projammer (T) being lynched while saving Fluiddruid (S). They swung to a wagon started by Lightnin’ (U).

Rachm Qoch seemed close with CaerieD for the first few days, including two posts which were “me too”. Interestingly, he said that P734 “If a sizeable proportion of Projammer’s vote switch off that is something we should look for.” Two comments on this:
a) Projammer as we now know is town.
b) If this logic were applied to Day 3 then we should look at the swing there.

If fluiddruid was Kyrie’s crumb, then one of Blastermaster’s defenses disappear. CaerieD is one of the few people still argung that fluiddruid wasn’t the crumb, which now only benefits Blastermaster.

Day Two: Around P708 CaerieD and Blastermaster have a bit of a set to, but Blastermaster’s vote against CaerieD is easily overlooked in the dnooman/Projammer bandwagon. P740 CaerieD “Looking over posting history and everything else, I’m far more comfortable voting for dnooman than Lightnin’ at this point.”
Rachm Qoch P756 “I’ll have to differ with CaerieD here, and upon reviewing the thread in full (again!) I must say the balance now tips against Projammer” creates a 5-5 tie.

fluiddruid P781 "Looking for such obvious links so early in the game isn’t going to help. There is a definite risk to defending other players facing a clear lynch, period – if you’re scum and they’re scum, you’ve created a connection between the two of you, and if you’re town and they’re scum, you’ve basically hung yourself at the expense of Town. "
CaerieD P787 “They aren’t going to purposefully sacrifice one of their own, but they’re not going to sacrifice the whole lot of themselves for one either. When your goal at the end of the game is numbers, it only makes sense to avoid an “all for one and one for all” mentality. To play the game looking for that kind of behavior is folly, because it’s not going to happen. It’s too obvious for them to make a production out of saving one another.”
P800 Lemur866 "A mafiosi is much more likely to pile on another vote onto a townie than vociferously defend another mafiosi. "
Taken together, these posts may possibly explain the vote swings in Day One and Three.

On preview FOS Idle Thoughts. Thanks for ringing a lot of alarm bells. Sorry, you are an experienced player who raised that fact on Day One, putting yourself straight in line for a kill, and you keep raising it. You seem pretty certain you won’t get killed. And as an experienced player you would also know that the first reaction of an experienced townie to someone discussing powerroles is usually to want to yell STFU.

Tell me, if last night was a recruit, why wouldn’t they have gone for you? In the absence of the Detective you’re a great target for one, you are largely trusted, and you’ve just spent today trying to put SnakesCatLady on the stand for her focusing on lynching fluiddruid for three days as opposed to most of our two.

Updated Vote Count

4 – Lightnin’ (DiggitCamara, Millit the Frail, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta)
3 – SnakesCatLady (Idle Thoughts, CaerieD, Lemur866)
2 – CaerieD (Lightnin’, SnakesCatLady)
1 – nesta (Hal Briston)
1 – Rachm Qoch (Omi No Kami)
1 – Blaster Master (tirial)

Two hours left.

Nah, don’t worry about that. I’ve been very exasperated throughout the entire game, as it seemed that some players decided I was scum from day one, and see everything I do as being ever more suspicious (including the fact that I didn’t get lynched, which is even more irritating), and nothing I can do or say will change their minds.

I wouldn’t hold a grudge or nothin’. I’d just enjoy reading the posts on the day after I get lynched. I might even say, “I told ya so!”
:slight_smile:

Problem I have is its the facts, not the arguments that are causing the issue. Weighed up the evidence against both is about equal, and pretty tied so if one is the other isn’t.

And I’m not going to try and change anyone’s votes, because its too easy to make a good case based on bad logic/evidence, whip up hysteria and get an innocent lynched (did I mention I’m a paranoia player?)

We got a scum yesterday and at least one of the two nights without kills will have been the doc/nightwatchman, so we are currently ahead. If we vote no lynch, it lets the mafia take initiative again - and I doubt they will kill anyone that will give us information.

unvote Blastermaster
Vote Idle Thoughts
I have been wondering about you for a while. However, you haven’t really given me much to work with. As an experienced player this is not surprising. Your last post however, did start me wondering why you were so certain there was a recruitment. And frankly, if you were the one that was recruited.

I might be wrong - I’ve been wrong before. However after last night, I don’t think so. Your constant drive towards SnakesCatLady today, and constant push into power roles today, are actions which no experienced player would do were they really town.

I didn’t want to raise this without a smoking gun because I am not looking forward to trying to go head to head with you - you do have more experience at this game than I do. None the less, I do believe it likely you are scum (I have raised this before) and therefore shall vote for you.

Quick question for those voting Lightin’ – is anything major, beyond voting record, that is causing the suspicion against him?

bolding mine.

Yeah yeah yeah…I know that as well as you. I’ve even seen in this game already. But see, FIRST of all, I’m not saying you are or aren’t the Doc. I’m just saying it makes the MOST SENSE if they tried hitting and found they couldn’t kill…and on the other side…it makes sense they would have gone for one of us.

So all I’m saying is, I think that they tried hitting you and found they couldn’t…for WHATEVER reason. Hell, maybe it was because the Night Watchman (whoever THAT is-- not implying it’s you OR that you’re the Doc either) made the save…and so they took their chances and recruited you.
Because SERIOUSLY. WHY would the first no kill night be a recruit? That doesn’t make any sense. They didn’t have anything to gain as pointed out by a million and one people. They had nothing to go on.

And since ONE of the two nights HAD TO HAVE BEEN A SAVE, I’m thinking it was the first one since, again, recruitment makes no sense.

SO, the first night was a save. Why don’t we just PUT it out there since that’s a 99 percent likely thing? Why don’t we just go along (UNTIL we learn or find out different) with that being the case to help us out more?

The first night was a save, let’s say. What happens the next night, huh? What, another save? Please. I doubt the NW would be that lucky, for one. For two, why would they try hitting a person they already were blocked on? They’d know it was either a Doc protection or the NW save…so it’s GOOD ODDS that that person is the Doc.
This isn’t being dumb for town. This is THINKING things that are COMMON SENSE and that make sense when you think about them. These are reasonable things when you put them through your head. That is, if one is really protown, I’d think.

Sure, maybe you still are town. But if you were, would you be so defensive and accusatory toward me right away? Wouldn’t you want to work together and go “hmm, well, that DOES make sense, but no, I’m still pro-town :p”. Flying off the handle doesn’t look too well either. And yeah, I know it’s because you think I’m being stupid by talking about it, but you can’t deny it would make perfect sense and explain things.

I dunno…maybe it wasn’t you they tried to hit and all. I have NO idea. All I’m saying is…that first no kill night was a save (almost had to be) and I think that second one was them recruiting whoever it was they TRIED the first no kill night.

The only reason I think it’s YOU is because both you and I are the only main posters in here who also have experience and it makes sense to try to get one of us out, you know?

And yeah, you could think the same about me too. You have that right and it’s perfectly possible. I’m saying it is to you…even though I’m saying the same to you and you’re attacking me now. :stuck_out_tongue:

Can you give a little more behind how you’re seeing these patterns. Are you talking about voting blocs?
As far as voting, because I too thought we had another 24 hours, I’ve already stated my cases against each of the top three. That said, I still think SCL is scummy, but the part that pushes me over the edge on her is that fluiddruid attacked her, and it looks like a bluff on her part. However, as she and has pointed out, it’s a dangerous game trying to determine how deep the bluffing goes. OTOH, as Idle Thoughts has pointed out, it makes the maximum likelihood is that it is a single bluff to attempt to nip the slight uptrend in her suspicion in the bud. However, because of the danger of this whole double-bluff game, I’m inclined to let the lynch tonight, and the night’s results shed some more light .

**Lightnin’ ** looks scummy to me as well, and he’s done little today to allay my suspicion, and plenty to make me more suspicious. The problem is, like with SCL, it depends highly on if the percypercy bandwagon on day one was in fact pushed by fluiddruid to save Lightnin’, whether she pushed it in a bluff (hoping that it might be viewed as an attempt to save scum to cast suspicion on a townie) or if it was neither. Unlike with SCL, the maximum likelihood is strongly in favor of it being an attempt to save scum specifically because they had no time strategize. OTOH, the more suspicious I become of him, the more unsure I am if it is because he’s actually scum, or just lacks the experience to realize how anti-town some of his actions seem (eg, a rush to lynch Projammer), and how befuddling the rest seem (eg, incriminating himself in a vote for CaerieD) . As much as I want to go ahead and vote here, per Occam’s Razor, the simpler solution (that he just lacks experience) is far more likely than the alternative (well crafted plan, since day one, to “play dumb”), I just can’t justify this vote until I’ve rethought it, which I obviously don’t have enough time to do.

This brings me to CaerieD who has consistently looked suspicious to me, and I’m wondering if the whole case against Lightnin’ and/or SCL hasn’t been pushed because the mafia know how easy of a target they are now. Besides earlier reasons for suspecting CaerieD, two things bother me about her. First, is her defense of fluiddruid. Her behavior up until yesterday looked very much like they were in cahoots, and then, when it appears the mafia realized fluiddruid was a lost cause and abandoned her to be lynched, **CaerieD ** was the most obvious change in that department by going from defending her to voting for her. Second, is her voting record, namely either being the last to vote for a townie (in the case of **percypercy ** and Projammer), or in voting very safely for scum (in the case of fluiddruid).

So, without further ado vote CaerieD.
On preview:
tirial I appreciate your reasons for voting for me, and I cannot defend them at this time because I cannot conclusively say what the status of CaerieD is. What does strike me as odd, though, is that you seem to think CaerieD and I are in a block together, yet you vote for me while seeming to admit that that she has more evidence against her AND failing to realize that she already has two votes (three, when mine gets tallied) and actually has a chance of getting lynched. I was fairly confident that you were pro-town early yesterday, but today your posturing has been WAY over the top. This whole “I’m so pro-town, they must have gone after me, and the doctor must have known I was worth protecting” plus your suddenly questionable reasoning is leading me to believe you very well may have been recruited last night. Of course, that said, I’m also not as sure of Idle Thoughts for the similar reasons, but less so.

Hey, vote for me from now on if you want. You won’t see me lashing out or getting all attack-y.

Yeah I have a constant drive toward her. it makes the most sense if you really look at it and think about it.

Hey, that’s fine. I think you are too, as I said. Although, I have to be honest here, I don’t think you were all this time. I think you’re recent scum.

Guess by the end of the game, we’ll see, won’t we?

Updated Vote Count

4 – Lightnin’ (DiggitCamara, Millit the Frail, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta)
3 – SnakesCatLady (Idle Thoughts, CaerieD, Lemur866)
3 – CaerieD (Lightnin’, SnakesCatLady, Blaster Master)
1 – nesta (Hal Briston)
1 – Rachm Qoch (Omi No Kami)
1 – Idle Thoughts (tirial)

Dusk falls in seventy-five minutes.

90% voting record
5% posts he made on or near Game Day 1, and the posts that linger on that day later in the game
5% who is voting elsewhere

Sorry - I wasn’t aware I had flown off the handle. Actually, looking at my post again, I’m still not aware I flew off the handle. Where do you see that, because I don’t see anything particularly angry in it. I do see several logical reasons why I think you were recruited. However, I said the town would be in trouble if you were recruited, and I think I was right. We are.

I don’t know - I never suggested that. Why don’t you tell me, since its your idea?

I agree. However, although you aren’t my first pick for the Doctor, it is likely they picked up a detail about the poster I believe to be the Doctor I mentioned - a slip on my part as that information did not need to be given out and wasn’t accurate - and recruited the most likely candidate. Someone who was repeatedly stating they were experienced, so would have the experience to spot my scheme and play along. You.

Really? You didn’t believe that scheme could have worked before. You had to be reminded of it repeatedly the day before. Now you are basing your whole case on it? What changed overnight? The no-kill wouldn’t suddenly make you start believing my scheme worked, unless you’d come into new information.

As mentioned, first night I believe was the result of the Doc+Decoy strategy. I don’t know what they did a second night. They may have tried hitting me again as I said the Doctor should self-protect which would leave me open, and the Doc outguessed them. They may have hit the actual Doctor who was self-protecting, if he gave a tell they picked up on. They may have hit a townie who the Doctor was protecting (unlikely). They may have been blocked by the Nightwatchman. Or they may have recruited.

But I am very interested in why you dropped CaerieD, who you thought was scum more than fluiddruid yesterday for SnakesCatLady? What changed? Knowledge that** fluiddruid** is scum surely makes CaerieD, who defended her, helped save her on Day 3, and voted on the bandwagon she started on Day One look more like scum, so why did you drop her? Post 1445 really doesn’t make sense, unless you’ve got new information that affects all the posters in question - and you hadn’t.

Blastermaster, I’m not voting for CaerieD or Lightnin’ because I can’t tell the difference. Unfortunately I’m still not certain they are scum. The vote for you was because you weren’t in danger of being lynched. The reactions from other members of the block would tell me more than yet another vote for CaerieD.

My first pick would still be one of those two, but as I can’t tell the difference (I’ve given up on getting straight answers out of Lightnin’) and **Idle Thoughts ** has changed his pattern since yesterday, I’m taking the chance of getting some answers and voting for someone I actually think is scum.

Oh, fer cryin’ out loud. I think, at this point, it’s clear the communication problem between you and me isn’t on my end. I’ve answered every question you’ve posted.

I’m through trying, now. I’ll work with the others, but you’ve repeatedly insulted me, and I’ve had enough.

This seems like this is just coming out of nowhere. A lot has been bandied about concerning SNL, and you’ve been nowhere near that conversation. As far as I can tell, she hasn’t been on your radar since Day 2, when you also voted her out of nowhere. All of the sudden, she’s back? More likely there’s some wagoneering going on.
Between this, the possible doctor-fishing, and that exchange in posts 1327, 1329, and 1332…
vote Lemur866

…now THAT is a scum tell.

(but seriously, isn’t it? Fluid showed the exact same pattern, obfuscating good questions by misinterpreting or repeatedly misunderstanding the poster, then blaming it on them.)

:rolleyes:

{Underlining mine}

Fair enough…well, almost. If you can’t tell the difference, why not simply pick one today and the other tomorrow? It seems kind of safe to stay away from voting for one of the top vote getters, especially with the knowledge that you suspect them. The only way I can see that being good for you is if you’re scum and you have knowledge that you’re either going to be a late vote for a swinging townie, or a damning vote for one of your fellow scum. I can understand voting for someone you suspect more, but if they’re your top two choices, why are you so afraid to put your name to one of them? To me, it looks like if they turn up town you say “I’m glad I didn’t vote for them, because I wasn’t sure” and if they turn up scum you can say “see, I told you so. I knew he/she was dead anyway, so I started on routing out the next one”. If you could honestly say that you suspect Idle Thoughts the most, I could let it slide, but it’s clear from what I underlined, that this is not the case.

Similarly, if you both started out town, I also understand why you and Idle Thoughts are going at it. From my perspective (and I imagine others), both of you seem to have had an alteration in your behavior patterns since yesterday, as each of you has pointed about the other. What I’m concerned about is that you two are the top candidates for recruitment and from the perspective of everyone else, who are unsure of your initial and current allegiances, we have no way of sorting out which of the two of you was recruited without a lynch. Hence, while I’m inclined to believe it is likely that one of you was recruited (or will be if the they haven’t recruited yet), if we’re wrong, we lose one of our best pro-town players in exchange for the likelihood that the other was recruited. Do you really think lynching either of you is in our best interest at this point? We haven’t even caught all of the initial mafia. Of course, if one or both of you started off as scum, I suppose we’re really in for a hurting

Hmm…all votes in, and unless something changes in the next 11 minutes, it looks like Lightnin’ is going to swing.

Nope…can’t say I like it anymore. There were a few little fishy things that popped up from him, but except for a rather unfortunate voting record, I don’t see much to convince me. I really, really hope I’m wrong, but I think we’re about to see another townie swing.

(Make that eight minutes, now)

You may very well be right, Hal Briston. I suspect him but there are others I suspect more.

That’s okay. When I swing, pay real close attention to my accusers.