Ah, well, I rather assume TexCat is being jokey throwing out something like that this early in the day, and for such a silly reason.
Morning all.
The game is, as someone once said, afoot. And so are we. Ware blisters.
Personally, I think Inner Stickler’s brief guide to acronyms and slang useful for new players and old alike, because it means we have a common reference to point to (since, sadly, FCoD’s Wiki has gone dark). I don’t agree with Texcat’s suspicion of Inner just on the basis of one post. I’d be more suspicious of Inner if he had a series of such posts without any Mafia-hunting activity; this early in the game, it seems premature.
Visorslash seems to be behaving in the same way he did last game - running around poking people for no reason (his first vote for Suburban Plankton said nothing about why he voted for SP) and that makes the vote meaningless - useless for learning anything about SP or Visorslash.
So, as yet, no real grounds for casting a vote.
I had no reason to vote SP. But neither does anyone for anything really, especially D1. Though, the votes will matter more as we learn more information. We’re not going to learn anything if we don’t lynch.
As an aside, I believe it almost 100% correct that the scum will take the poison, spear and knives. If the scum have the pardoner and the spear it could get messy at LyLo.
I agree that we don’t have anything to go on at this point. However, your vote for SP will not tell us anything about either you or SP, no matter how far into the game we go.
Absolutely. Which is why I will be placing a vote sometime Today. We’ll get information from the lynch that will enable us to learn more, even if the victim is a Townsperson.
I contend, however, that a reasonless vote right at the start of Day 1, before the player voted for has even posted in the game thread, is worthless.
I’ll be shocked if the knives weren’t taken. I need to think about the others.
So do we actually vote on someone to lynch on the first day, before the scum have gotten their kill? That seems a bit off flavorwise.
:: pulls out lute ::
Hi, I just met you
And this is crazy
But you look like scum
So kill you maybe?
It looks like we only have one vig, with a one-time kill, unless I overlooked something in the write up. It will be up to the vig to judge the balance between waiting for a good vig opportunity and not getting killed themselves before getting a chance to use it, I guess.
Question for anyone with more mafia experience than myself: has there ever been a case where outright lying as town has been justified?
This was something that stood out to me in the write-up. My first thought was that the investigators should just all investigate scattershot on Night 1. Without any way to co-ordinate, there’s going to be a random amount of overlap no matter what, and it seems like we would be better off with the information sooner rather than later. Is this ignorance and/or stupidity on my part?
It’s a gameplay thing.
Would you rather someone be killed before the game starts properly, and therefore not be able to play at all?
There’s also a game balance issue; starting with a Day (including a lynch) is slightly more favourable to Town than starting with a Night (and a Mafia kill).
I’m a little on the fence about this. While I agree that any lynch is generally better than no lynch this early in the game, from an information standpoint, I’m leery of mis-lynching one of our many one-shot investigators before they’ve had a chance to investigate. but then, unless they all investigate night 1 (see my previous post for contemplation on this), we have the same problem on day 2, etc. to be clear, I’m not advocating a no-lynch, just thinking out loud about the pros/cons.
We have a 1/5 chance of lynching an investigator (3/15) I am willing to take those odds easily.
There are nineteen players, not 15. So the chance of lynching one of the investigators is just under 1 in 6. You can only get to 15 players if you are assuming the lynched player is Town - ie you know we will not be lynching a Mafiate.
That’s worth a black mark against you.
On the subject of investigators, there is a way to coordinate their activity; one player use their power on Night 1 and claim on Day 2, revealing results, then another act on N2 and claim D3, and the third act N3 and claim D4.
I’m not sure whether it’s worth doing, and won’t be able to think through the implications this afternoon. I’ll come back to this later.
True. I guess it’s a good thing that we’re all granted with the power of knowing with 100% certainty there are 4 scum out there. Otherwise, the reality would be that we, the townspeople, shed first blood. Now the scum are justified. These townfolk are crazy! Self defense baby!
A quick lunchtime post:
Because of the way the scum were chosen, they have a couple of advantages that they wouldn’t normally get in open set-ups:
- They know better than Town what powers Town have.
- They know better than Town what powers Scum have.
- They have pitch-perfect roleclaims that can’t be counterclaimed.
I think the last one is the most serious for us: simply claiming a role is no defence at all, and shouldn’t be treated like one. Roleclaimers need to be tested somehow, either by their claimed actions and results, or by being investigated. Whether we decide to postpone a lynch to wait for investigation will be a decision we’ll have to make on a case by case basis, but my fear is that roleclaims will raise more questions than they answer.
I would strongly suggest that Town don’t rely on roleclaims to get themselves out of trouble: if you find yourself in danger of being lynched, you should try to argue your way out of it; failing that you need to claim in good enough time for your claim to be investigated. I will be strongly tempted to lynch anyone who makes a roleclaim with just hours to go.
I’m going out on a limb here and suggesting that we probably won’t lunch scum Day 1, hence the 3/15 statement. Though the actual probabilities of lynching a detective are more accurate as you said above.
How would an investigator know when it is their turn to act?
On the subject of claims, the first player to die (presumably Today’s lynchee) will automatically have their power assumed by someone else - unless that player is the Parson or the Parson is Mafia-aligned.
Also, rereading the Tools post, one of the Mafiates has the sacrificial knives - if M1, M2 and M3 choose other things, M4 gets the knives.
They could act in the order their roles appear in the Roles post - that is, the Friar, then the Man of Law, then the Reeve.
What disadvantages, if any, can someone see?
On co-ordinating investigators:
One way to do it is to split the player list in three, and instruct each investigative role to investigate from within one subgroup. It shouldn’t matter how we split the list - I’m sure some sufficiently random way can be devised. The upside of this is that it stops overlap; the downside is that it corrals the investigators somewhat; if they wanted to hang on to their power to check a roleclaim, for example, they’d be hard-pressed under this system.
The bigger question is to what extent we can trust the investigations. There may or may not be a cloak of lies (and to be honest, simply knowing that possibility means we’re never going to be 100%); there’s also the chance that at least one investigator is scum.
The time frame involved. Spreading the investigations over 3 days makes it much more likely that we end up losing one to a night attack or mislynch before he gets to use it.
I think there is a way to get unique targets for all investigators on the first night, without making them claim immediately and be a target for the night kill. On night 1 we can decide as a group which 3 people to investigate, and as a group assign an investigator for each of them. We can have our investigators remain anonymous until the claim (avoiding the night kill target) but still get 3 unique investigations on night 1.
Stanislaus posted pretty much the same idea as me, as I was composing. I think it’s a good idea. Waiting isn’t going to make the investigations any more accurate.
Why would you assume that? Player don’t normally (and shouldn’t) joke about suspicions without making it clear once the game has started.
That’s how I see it. ** Stickler** being helpful is a null town. Town motive: help town play better. Scum motive: look town. Likewise, I don’t make much of TexCat’s FOS. It’s weakly justified, but at this stage of the game some players need to be prepared to poke others.
That’s noteworthy.
The investigators would need a power-use/claim order in order for this to work, which could simply be the order of the roles in the town rules. The implications of this strategy are quite complicated and difficult to work out. Right now, I think I’m opposed to this, as the odds of a double investigation aren’t that high. Another problem with claiming results too early is scum can kill off any confirmed town.
On preview - I’m in agreement with what Stanislaus has to say about the implications of roleclaims in this game. A claim that cannot be tested is worthless. Some roles produce visible actions, and some do not. Also note, The Memento scum tool grants scum access to their town power.