OK, no discussion about tragedy or incompetence or terrorism. I’m asking the factual question: there’s this multi-million dollar search going on, with high-tech equipment and lengthy flights searching. Who’s paying for the search?
No hidden political agenda here, I’m just curious.
I’m wondering what the limit is.
Worst case scenario, it’s at the bottom of the Indian ocean with 0 surface debris. They are never able to narrow down it’s position to an area smaller than a rectangle a few hundred miles on the long side, and at least 100 miles wide.
Realistically, it is very unlikely it would be found. It took 2 years to find an airplane they knew the position of 4 minutes before the crash. This would be a thousands of times larger search area, and it’s all murky ocean.
It’s possible that the cost to find this aircraft is billions of dollars. (I mean, I suppose if you paid for hundreds or thousands of towed underwater sensors, and exhaustively scoured the ocean, eventually you’d find it)
Is it worth it? Given how many 777s are flying, it isn’t necessary to figure out why this one went down. Empirical evidence shows the 777 is a safe aircraft, even if there are failures that can bring one down in a rare event. The satellite telemetry that shows the plane headed into the open ocean means there is no realistic possibility that the aircraft didn’t crash eventually, since it had finite fuel onboard.
Short answer: Whoever sends their people & equipment are paying. The US, Australia, etc.
When the cost / benefit ratio runs out for those who are footing the bill.
At this point I would think it is mostly countries / governments so at the end of the day the citizens are paying. In actuality, when they are getting to the point that they are using $$$ that are needed elsewhere more in their opinion. Then will stop.
There may be a few private people or companies trying to do something, but other that telling crews from the shipping, fishing, flying going on in that area, there is not a lot of long term work they can do.
From what I have read, the US & Australia right now are carrying the biggest part. This could change if China decides to really try. Lot of effort from smaller countries but their equipment commitment is understandably less.
Does anyone have knowledge of why there was so much effort on the Air France crash? Airbus wanted to know, the French government? The aviation community because it was obviously an aircraft crew intersect problem? Other?
Who was paying for the last year of that hunt?
Today’s newspapers are already hinting that the end is nigh. Statements that the passengers are now ‘presumed dead’ and and that it was entirely down to one or both pilots, indicate to me that most governments are now going through the motions.
I think that when the ‘black box’ stops pinging next week, the search will wind down. After that it will be pretty much up to satellites to look out for debris.
Wouldn’t the US government send the search bill to Malaysian Airlines?
Back in my home town you call the authorities for a rescue and you’re deemed at fault, or more likely due to your stupidity, you get a bill for the search time. This in mountain and cold weather country. I know this for sure as a good friend is in charge of the mountain rescues.
No chance. There’s a huge difference between the motivations of the US Government in a case like this and your local first responders in the types of cases you mentioned.
To name just one, there are going to be 200 plus wrongful death claims pending against Malaysian Airlines, in all likelihood. Why would the US Government want to pile on more bills on top of that; or god forbid, insist that we happen to be repaid before the compensation claims are decided? That would make us look awful.
Not to mention the terrible precedent that if United Flight 1234 goes down in the Pacific, that other countries would expect United Airlines to pay for their SAR efforts, or maybe they will sit tight and not do anything at all…
There were three searches over the course of those two years. I believe each search lasted a matter of weeks so for most of those two years no active searching was going on. The third and final search was funded initially by Air France and Airbus.
This was the topic of another thread in the past 3 weeks, but my search-fu is weak.
I believe the Australian prime minister has come out and said, in response to this very question from a reporter at a press conference, that to date each country is footing the bill for its part.
Yup, it’s usually the case that each country participating covers its own costs; same goes for SOLAS (safety of life at sea) operations. It’s generally in everybody’s interests to encourage international transport and commerce, and working together on safety issues is part of this. There are various obligations to support safety operations; the cost of complying with this is just factored in as part of the overall costs not only by states, but by private operators as well. it’s accepted that this is a better and cheaper way of handling the matter than having a complex set of (highly disputable) obligations about who is responsible to reimburse who.
For example, if you get into trouble at sea and send out a distress signal, nearby merchant vessels are supposed to respond and assist you and if this delays them in their voyages, well, it delays them. They won’t be billing you for that. (In fact cover for the costs they incur by doing this is included in standard marine insurance policies.)
On this operation, all the countries participating are covering their own costs. Many of them are doing more than they are obliged to, and they have their reasons for doing that, but their reasons do not include an expectation of payment. Whatever they are doing they are doing on the basis that they know that nobody is paying them for it.
Yes, with SOLAS is pretty much a given that it isn’t charged for. There was some discontent here in Oz, especially after a number of sailors had to be plucked from the seahttp://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rescues-to-continue-regardless-of-cost/2008/12/21/1229794246581.html as they almost lemming like sailed the Vendée Globe round the world race into Antarctic waters. The Vendée and the IMOCA-60 class have got a lot better, and whilst they are some of the most extreme racing boats about, they have not suffered quite so badly of late. (Keels still fall off with monotonous regularity, but it is better.)
Search missions for a downed aircraft when there is no hope of survivors is a bit new however. The SOLAS rules and the international convention covering sea rescue only require things to continue whilst there is a chance of rescuing survivors. The search for MH370 is into forensics rather than rescue.
The question of cost is a difficult one. When you have the Navy or Airforce doing the searching, you are really only incurring costs for fuel and maintenance over that incurred in normal operations. The airmen and sailors are already being paid, and would be just mucking about doing training exercises (like pretending to do a search and rescue operation). So exactly what form of accounting rules you want to use can drastically affect the way you work out the cost. No doubt that ships and planes are horrendously expensive things to operate. The fixed costs for maintaining a useful search and rescue capability are massive, even when there is no rescuing to do.
Reports on CNN (TV) that debris has washed up on an island near Madagascar. Here is the link.
The silver lining is that we’re making better ocean floor maps.
Just to be clear. Debris probably from *some *airplane has washed up. Whether it actually *is *a piece of an airplane and if so whether it’s from MH370 is utterly unknown so far.
Agreed. Again, I posted “first reports”.
Apparently a flaperon from a B777.
Photos here of details of the flap compared to Boeing line drawings of a 777 flap. I wouldn’t call the “similitudes incroyable”, but it’s convincing.
The location it has washed up at is consistent with the search area. (It’s also consistent with a whole heap of other areas too of course.)
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Indian_Ocean_Gyre.png]Indian Ocean currents.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Indian_Ocean_Gyre.png)
How many other 777 planes have lost a part that big? I assume if there are other planes with missing parts it would be known. (assuming it’s from a 777)
IF it is from a B777, which is looking very likely from the pictures, then I think it is highly likely it is from MH370. MH370 is the only B777 that has crashed at sea (or is thought to have.) If there has been a B777 that has simply had a flaperon fall off a wing then I’m sure someone will remember and let us know pretty quickly.
