Male board members, time to give your two cents

In My Humble Opinion
1

A little background:

The man and I have been together a little over a year and a half and have been living together about 9 months. Everything is hunky dory. We’ll both be graduating law school next year, get along famously and love each other to pieces.

I know it’s soon, but the topic of marriage has come up in conversation rather frequently as of late. Basically, the man never misses an opportunity to comment on how he sees no benefit to marriage and that it’s just a piece of paper and yadda yadda yadda.

I told him a little while ago that I wasn’t expecting it to happen anytime soon but if he honestly had no intentions of ever getting married I deserved to know. I’m 28 years old and while I’m not running towards the isle quite yet, I’m also not getting any younger. I love this man with all my heart and would be absolutely heartbroken without him, but if we truly want different things in life, then it’s never going to work out. To this, he replied I had nothing (he stressed the word, not me) to worry about.

A few things to keep in mind: he likes to tease me often and I’m sure a lot of the recent “anti-marriage” comments were made in jest. He’s33 years old, has a nine year old daughter, all of his friends are getting married (he and one other friend are the last ones) and he’s got people asking him regularly when the two of us are going to tie the knot. Given that he’s got a bit of a rebellious streak, I think some of the comments are also made in defiance.

But then again, he was with his ex for a very long time and never married her, no matter how much she pressured him. To this, he replied that he knew it would never work between them, he was together with her for those years because they had a child and that our relationship is different.

My main concern is this: if he does propose to me eventually, will it be because he feels pressured to do so, or will it be because he actually wants to be married to me? The worst thing in the world I can imagine is someone being married to me who didn’t want to be. Honestly, I’d rather be alone than receive an obligatory proposal.

So my actual question (thanks for bearing with me) is this: how many men on this board proposed to their spouses because they felt they had to, or that it was the right thing to do? Did that feeling ever go away? Is it normal for men to avoid marriage like the plauge? Am I freaking out over nothing?

2

I am probably not a good source for this advice-53 and happily married for decades-but to me it sounds like your SO is scared sh*tless of the thought of marriage. He says you have nothing to worry about and that means he isn’t leaving tomorrow, not that he is planning to propose tomorrow. Personally I would be concerned with this relationship. The problem is that the guy isn’t a good candidate for marriage in his present state of mind and you are pretty determined that is your future. Now if you were comfortable with not getting married, you both might be very happy for a very long time. But as it is, I would worry. OTOH, his state of mind could change in a flash. If you want to hang around and wait, it might pay off. But don’t try to force him to make a choice. You might win and a marriage in that situation would be (IMHO) a bad move for both. Oh, and tell him up front this isn’t a joking matter. Marriage IS important to you and is more than a piece of paper. If he can’t respect your feelings that is the cheapest lesson you will get in this relationship.

Hope this helps.

BTW, my (then future) wife told me early on that marriage and kids were in her future. That settled the matter in a flash for me. She was right as usual.

3

I don’t do marriage. I have never been married and I shall never be married. I am very much capable of being deeply in love with someone, and of wanting very much for it to continue; and although I am not instinctively or offically monogamous, I’m also not very promiscuous, and when I give of myself and share intimacy, it means something special.

In case your guy has views similar to my own: don’t assume he’s kidding. Ask him point-blank to discuss his views on the institution, the structure and expectations and traditions and everything else that goes with “marriage” (and “wedding” for that matter). And be prepared to reciprocate.

If it is important to you to eventually be a married person, know it, and know why, and if he is antipathetic towards marriage, decide whether or not to move on or to move beyond thinking in terms of marriage, for that may be the choice you face. (Not that he would not have to make a reciprocal choice if he’s opposed to marriage).

Would he perhaps marry you not because he wants to be married (to you or otherwise) but because he doesn’t want to lose you? Certainly possible. Would you live as the two of you are living now, never marrying, not because that’s how you wish to live, but because you don’t want to lose him? That one’s for you to answer.

4

Determine what your rights and obligations would be should you remain together but not marry, and eventually separate. Determine what your rights and obligations would be should you remain together and marry, but eventually separate. What rights and obligations would be different? Which ones are imporant to you? Can they be covered by way of a domestic contract? If yes, then consider making a cohab, so that you would get the protection that you otherwise would not have unless you were married, but your spouse would not have to marry you. Once your rights are protected, then the two of you can take your time to see if your spouse eventually decides to tie the knot.

5

There are benefits to marriage (legal, social, emotional), for those that appreciate it.

Those who say it’s only a piece of paper are missing the point, by a wide mark. Apparently they limit their thinking to having a (romantic) relationship. Marriage is about having a life-partnership that includes, but goes significantly beyond, having a relationship.

A couple I knew lived together for years, and seemed to get along quite well. He did not believe in marriage, and she accepted that. His job took him 2,000 miles away (temporarily, supposedly). About a year later they broke up. Within another year he married someone he met in his new locale. Apparently his belief in marriage changed.

I consciously decided not to marry young after seeing many couples grow apart and get divorced while in their 20’s or early 30’s. I felt ready to marry at age 28, and kept eye out for the right woman. Found her and married at 34. Along the way I had some deep love for some women, and gave some serious thought to marriage. But it was different when I met my (now) wife. There was a connection on another level, and it just seemed natural that we would be (lifelong) life-partners.

Whether or not this fellow is the type who won’t ever marry anybody, to me it looks doubtful that he’ll marry you. He would have to have an epiphany wherein he embraces the notion of committing to you and to your relationship. This will include getting over the tunnel-visioned “just a piece of paper” nonsense and rising above childish rejection of doing something if other people want you to do it. Not impossible, but rather unlikely.

About me: Male, mid-50’s, married 20 years.

6

Well, commitment ≠ marriage.

Marriage is a specific commitment, one of the few binding contracts you can be held to without signing a piece of paper listing the tenets thereof. Read up on it; if the terms suit you, marriage is for you; if not, substitute your own structure and don’t get married.

7

I was 20 when I married my then pregnant girlfriend (who was 17). We knew each other for less than a year before we were married. I assume we would still be married but she died 3 years ago this July. We were married for 22 years.

I’m engaged to be married on August 19th (and my fiancee’s birthday is my old wedding anniversary :o). I met her last June. I assume this one will last longer than the first :slight_smile:

I believe in the sanctity of marriage.

E3

8

Ah, lezlers, me bonnie lass. Seeking advice on affairs of the heart once again, I see!

Lemme see here: pressured into marriage…Where have I come across that term?..

Oh, now I remember! Yes, I’ve been pressured into marriage twice. Married twice, and pressured into it both times.

The first time, letting myself be pressured into marrying was a dreadful mistake. It cost me much more than a ring. It cost me time; precious years that can’t be bought back.

Letting myself be pressured into marriage the second time was the single best thing I’ve ever done. She knew better than I that I needed her in my life. 20+ years later we’re still together.

So pressure away if you wish because there are no guarantees anyway, pressure or not. You rolls your bones (heh) and you takes your chances.

Good luck!

9

I always said I would never marry. Then I found the woman I wanted to marry.

I endorse the entirety of Muffin’s response, and the penultimate sentence of John Carter of Mars’.

10

Marriage rights and benefits.

11

Not a male, but I couldn’t resist posting - feel free to ignore.

When I was 20, my new b/f was 26. He told me he never wanted to get married or have children. I wanted both of those things very badly someday. I thought he would grow out of it. We broke up 10 years later, because he knew that he could never give me what I truly wanted.

So my entire 20’s were wasted in terms of getting closer to my two biggest goals.

If you want to be married, this guy you’re with is not the guy for you. He is not playing games, or being coy, or just trying to get a rise out of you. He does not want to marry you, or anyone. If what you want is a non-marital-commitment, then yes, you will have rights after a certain period of cohabitation.

Good luck.

12

My husband wasn’t exactly pressured into marriage, but he certainly didn’t see the point–there’s never really been a successful marriage in his family, and marriage didn’t carry much meaning for him. He knew he wanted to be with me for the rest of his life–that was a given–but he just didn’t see much point in the actual filing of the paperwork. However, he did get that it mattered to me, and so was willing to go along with it, not because I henpecked him into it, but because it was an easy way to make me happy, and because he didn’t really have anything against marriage. Five years later, we are doing fine.

The other thing is to find out if he really objects to getting married or to throwing a wedding. There are lots of people who really are filled with dread at the thought of throwing a wedding, and once you seperate “being married” from “having a wedding”, they are ok with the idea–but this only matters if you could stand to elope.

13

He’s made his feelings fairly clear. Like most men he beats around the bush instead of speaking directly to the issue but if I could paraphase his remarks into plain English it would probably read “Marriage?? That will be a cold day in hell!!”

If marriage is important to you, it’s time to move on. For a male he’s really made his intentions pretty clear.

Jim
married 36 years

14

If a guy is firmly against marriage but uses the excuse “[I see] no benefit to marriage and that it’s just a piece of paper and yadda yadda yadda”, then he’s full of crap. If you see no benefit to marriage, then you’re ambivalent, and if you’re ambivalent, then you’re neither for it or against it. On the other hand, this guy sounds like he just doesn’t want to marry you but doesn’t have a good reason. If that’s the excuse he’s giving you- that there’s no benefit to it- but absolutely refuses to marry you, then he’s keeping his options open. Is that really what you want?

I know plenty of guys who are married, and in my experience and theirs, when they realized they were with the person they loved and wanted to spend the rest of their lives with, marriage was a given. They weren’t forced into it and didn’t need to be convinced. It’s not “just a piece of paper”- it’s a statement to the world that you’re off the market, you’re part of a lifelong bond, and you’re not afraid to let everyone know it. If my partner isn’t willing to make that kind of commitment to me and to the world, then I’d question how committed she is to me.

15

Mr. Athena and I are going to be married sometime this summer. Notice I already call him Mr. Athena; we’ve been together for going on ten years, we’ve moved across the country together, we’ve had pooled finances and bought houses together. We’re as commited as can be, and neither of us are particularly adament about being married. Neither of us feel that legal marriage has anything to do with commitment or love. We have no children, so that is not a consideration.

So why are we doing it? Because we looked at things realistically. If anything happened to one of us, as it stands now, our parents would be the legal representative and make any health related decisions. If I’m in a coma, I want Mr. Athena calling the shots, not my mother. If one of us were to die, our property would go to our parents. Doing our taxes every year is a pain in the butt.

Yes, we could probably come up with a series of legal contracts that would fix all of the above, but none of them is as simple, easy, or non-contestable as marriage is. So we’re getting hitched :slight_smile:

16

There wasn’t really any question about marriage, in my mind. I was brought up on the premise that marriage is something you do, and that it’s forever (or untril death). Pepper Mill, although from a different background, was the same way. If you’re going to have a house and family, you need a long-term commitment. Simple as that. Some people are afraid of that, for some reason or other. But if you’re going to have kids, you want someone who resolves to be in for the long haul. The piece of paper and the big ceremony just prove you’re willing to say so in public. (People can still run out of a marriage).
If someone won’t agree to long-term commitment that you want, find out why, or you’ll probably want to move on.

17

Depends. Is marriage itself, as in the piece of paper and the legal stuff that comes along with it, not the stuff that’s perceived as coming along with it but you can have anyway - commitment, fidelity, children - important to you? If so, is he more important?

What I’m hearing is that he finds marriage pointless, much like me. If he’s going to stay with you, he’ll stay whether or not you’re married. If he’s going to have kids with you, he’ll have them whether or not you’re married. Can you live with that, or is the formality of marriage more important to you?

18

No, it’s not (though it would certainly be smart to avoid marriage with someone you don’t want to be married to).

The vast majority of straight men get married at least once in their lives. They certainly aren’t all buffaloed into doing it.

19

Are there no cohabitation laws in the US? Here in Sweden, if you’re cohabitating romantically with someone, you have pretty much the same rights (some exceptions) as if you’re married.

20

In my experience, when a man starts talking bad about marriage in general, most often, he’s commenting on his current relationship. I think it’s pretty clear that this guy has told you that he does not want to marry you. Given that, if he does propose, then I would think that, yes, it’s because he feels pressured or coerced to.